Why DD did not ask Snape to kill him. (extremely long)

[houyhnhnm102]

No: HPFGUIDX 165984

Dana now:

> A devoted DE, like Bellatrix, is always a potential 
> threat, even if the situation at hand is controlled. 
> She might not actively go to LV to verify Snape's tale, 
> but she will take any opportunity if it presents itself. 
> And we see she actually does by talking to Draco. By 
> goading Bella, he lost control over Draco. 

> So the control over Bella is extremely limited as far 
> as I can tell, and this makes telling lies to a person 
> desperate for the favour of her Master, extremely 
> dangerous. Better not leave things to chance by using 
> something that can be verified. Not being able to call 
> her Master on his skills directly, does not mean there 
> will be no opportunities to seed doubts in LV's trust 
> in Snape in the future.

houyhnhnm:

Bellatrix is dangerous to Snape and will remain so.  
I didn't mean to sugggest that the threat she posed 
was removed, only that by throwing her off balance, 
forcing her to admit she no longer has the Dark Lord's 
full confidence, suggesting by his litany of explanations 
that he has, Snape made it a little safer for himself 
to pursue Narcissa's reason for showing up on his 
doorstep.  He is *temporarily* disarming her by playing 
on her own doubts, it seems to me.

I don't see the danger of lying to her if he has 
already ascertained how much or how little she knows 
about his relationship with Voldemort, and also 
the fact that she no longer has the Dark Lord's ear.
("Have you discussed this matter with the Dark Lord?" 
asked Snape.  "He ... lately, we ... I'm asking you Snape!") 
 
I think an obligatory scene has been set up between 
these two and I'm looking forward to it.

Dana now:

> Because the only one who has everything to lose 
> by being found out as a liar, is Snape.

houyhnhnm:

If he's DDM, he has everything to lose.  And if he's 
DDM, he's got to keep lying successfully.  Narcissa 
has her son's life at stake.  She'll say anything it 
takes to get Snape to help her.  ("... You are the 
Dark Lord's favorite, his most trusted advisor ...") 
I don't think we can take anything she says at face 
value.  And Bella is trying to maintain her high 
status among the Death Eaters.  ("He shares everything 
with me," said Bellatrix, firing up at once. " He 
calls me his most loyal, his most faithful--")  She's 
just not very good at it.  With Snape as an adversary, 
she's out of her league.  There's no way any of these 
three are being candid with each other.  Snape and 
Bella are each trying to catch the other one out in 
a disloyalty.  Bella even attacks her own sister for 
suggesting that Voldemort has been unable to defeat 
--[whomever].  That was the point I was trying to make 
about the fog of tryanny.

Dana now:

> If he really doesn't know the plan, then how do you 
> explain him taking, the most serious magical bond, 
> one can commit to and leave everything to the chance 
> it's more serious than he expected it to be?

houyhnhnm:

That's easy.  If he really doesn't know the plan, he 
agreed to the vow (not knowing that the third clause 
would be included) because it was the only way he 
thought he could find out without making Bellatrix 
more of an immediate danger to him than she already was.

Try this on for size:  Narcissa Malfoy shows up on 
his doorstep late at night, desperately seeking his 
help with Voldemort's latest plan, one which involves 
Draco.  Snape doesn't know about the plan.  Maybe he 
knows something is up, but hasn't managed to get any 
details out of Voldemort or anyone else.  But he knows 
that if it involves Draco, it involves Hogwarts.  If 
Voldemort is planning some kind of attack on Hogwarts, 
that information has got to be more important than 
anything else Snape has ever pursued.  An attack on 
Hogwarts could even mean an attack on Harry.  If Snape 
doesn't know about the plan, then he also doesn't 
know Dumbledore is the object.  
Of course, it's worth his life.

Dana:

> But for argument's sake: if Snape really takes 
> the UV to find out what Draco's task is, then how 
> come the DEs on the Tower know what Draco is failing 
> to do and, more important, Draco never told him, so 
> how could he have told DD for DD to ask him to kill him.

houyhnhnm:

Lumpy Amycus doesn't have to know anything about 
the Vow Snape made with Narcissa to know that Draco 
appears to be failing his task.  He and the other DEs 
are *in* Hogwarts.  They obviously know about the 
mission.  They may even have orders to kill Draco if he fails.

Dana: 

> And if Snape was told later, why take the UV to 
> find out in the first place; if he expects LV to 
> want him to finish the job, don't you think he is 
> expecting to be told later (if he didn't already 
> know as he claimed)?

houyhnhnm:

If Snape doesn't know about the task, then he also 
doesn't know that LV to wants him to finish the job.  
He's making it all up. The whole reason for my original 
reponse to your post (since I am not one who believes 
DD engineered the action at Spinners End.  Who does 
believe that, actually?) is that, over and over, I 
see posters claiming the LV did or did not order this 
or did or did not want that, based on the conversation 
at Spinner's End.  I don't think such a conclusion is 
justified. There's no way to know how much of what 
Snape tells Bellatrix is crapola.  We do know *some* of it is.