LV's bigger plan / Trelawney at the funeral or not?
Mike Crudele
mcrudele78 at yahoo.com
Sun Mar 25 01:51:12 UTC 2007
No: HPFGUIDX 166448
> Dana:
> > I do not agree that even though she herself cannot remember it
> consciously that this would mean the memory would not be there. We
> have seen in the several pensieve scenes that a memory can be
> looked at from a perspective that the owner of that memory would
> not have been aware of at the time the memory registered in the
> mind. Her mere presence in the room would make it possible to look
> at the scene from a third person's view and hear her tell DD the
> prophecy.
>
>
> Ceridwen:
> We have no canon on how memories might work in this sort of
> circumstance, but I think so, too. Since Trelawney's brain and
> body, if not her mind, were still in the room, it's possible that
> she could have a memory that LV could watch in a Pensieve.
Mike:
We do have the example of Dumbledore using "a great deal of skilled
Legilimency to coax it [the memory] out" of Morfin Gaunt. So we know
that a skilled wizard can "coax" a memory out of a reluctant wizard.
But recall, the memory ends when "Morfin could not remember anything
from that point onward". Since the same is true for Trelawney, that
is she can't remember anything during the prophecy, why would anyone
viewing the prophecy in a pensieve not get a stretch of *blank tape*
during the prophecy delivery from Trelawney's memory?
Secondly, does anyone think Voldemort, skilled as he may be at
Legilimency, would try to "coax" a memory out of anyone? I don't.
I think Voldemort would use the same method on Trelawney that he used
on poor Bertha Jorkins, with probably the same devasting effect on
Sibyll, if Voldemort ever got his hands on her. But that method would
most likely not reveal anything to Voldemort that Sibyll couldn't
have consciously known herself. The fact that she goes into a trance
and seems to act as a conduit for the Prophecy Demons, means to me
that she cannot provide that information that Voldemort would attempt
to extract with brute force Legilimency.
But none of this is true for Snape!! If Voldemort had access to a
pensieve, why doesn't he just get Snape to provide him with his
memory of that evening. Then Voldemort could wander around inside
that memory as many times as he wants gathering all the info he
wants. But Dumbledore doesn't believe that Voldemort has thought of
this, and it is borne out by Voldemort's efforts in OotP vis-a-vis
the prophecy orb. So maybe these Pensieves are quite rare items in
the WW. Dumbledore seems to have quite a few things that other
wizards don't. Is the Pensieve another of these things?
> Ceridwen:
> Imagine the implications! He would see *everything*, from the
> interview with Dumbledore, to the prophecy, to Snape's arrival
> *after the prophecy*. Not quite the way it was explained to LV.
> Snape only supposedly overheard the first part and was thrown out
> before it ended.
Mike:
Like I said above, he could have got this info from a Snape extracted
memory, but I don't believe the same would be there from Sibyll's
memory. So why doesn't he get it from Snape?
What reason could Snape have used to beg off from giving Voldemort
his memory of the event? Or did he even have to? Does Voldemort have
a Pensieve to "replay" memories in? Or did Voldemort Legilimence
Snape and discover that Snape's memory ended after the second line of
the prophecy, just as he told LV?
I think the last one is the most likely scenario, at least as far as
Voldemort's probable actions go. Can't speak to what Snape, at age 22
or 23 could have done to block Voldemort's Legilimency from
penetrating farther than he wanted.
BTW, Snape's arrival after the prophecy is over was my basis for the
Dumbledore Does Lie scenario that I've postulated. Just a side
thought.
Mike, who thinks Dumbledore protects Trelawney not to protect any
more of the prophecy from reaching LV, but because he knows she would
end up like Bertha Jorkins if LV got a hold of her.
More information about the HPforGrownups
archive