The one... to vanquish... approaches.... The one... to vanquish will be born

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 168239

There seem to be basically two schools of thought here about 
the prophecies; one insists that the first prophecy is incomplete 
and has possibly been "doctored" by Dumbledore and others 
who equally insist that it is complete.

I suspect that we all accept the second prophecy to be complete 
because Harry heard it himself and we, as readers, are totally 
privy to that revelation. In the case of the earlier message, 
some group members place a great deal of emphasis on the 
use of ellipses in the wording and suggest that they indicate 
missing sections.

I had an on-group and off-list discussion with Carol about its 
wording. In the UK Bloomsbury editions – which I am inclined 
to consider `primus inter pares' <g> – the OOTP prophecy only 
contains capital letters when referring to the Dark Lord and for 
the very first word of the message. Where an ellipsis occurs, 
except for the last one where Trelawney begins to repeat the 
prophecy, it is possible to read straight through them to give 
one sentence, albeit a rather lengthy one with a lot of conjunctions. 
I personally doubt that a sensible clause could have been 
removed from an originally extended message.

Just a couple of notes to reinforce my view about the messages 
being complete. Like some other members, I doubt whether 
Dumbledore intended to adjust the prophecy for Harry's 
consumption. In view of the limited contact between them 
during OOTP, it is likely that this would not have been done 
prior to the Ministry battle and bearing in mind the situation 
when the prophecy is revealed, Dumbledore had no time to 
produce an edited version. Harry has just lost his godfather; 
he is emotionally overcome, physically battered and Dumbledore's 
conversation kicks off as soon as he arrives back.

The other point is in the way in which the messages are delivered. 

Looking at the first message:
`Relieved, Harry got up, picked up his bag and turned to go, 
but then a loud, harsh voice spoke behind him.
"It will happen tonight."
Harry wheeled around. Professor Trelawney had gone rigid in 
her armchair, her eyes were unfocused and her mouth sagging
.


and then Professor Trelawney spoke again, in the same hatsh 
voice, quite unlike her own.'
(POA "Professor Trelawney's Prediction" p.238 UK edition)

And at the second:
`But when Sybill Trelawney spoke, it was not in her usual ethereal, 
mystic voice but in the harsh, hoarse tones Harry had heard her 
use once before.'
(OOTP "The Lost Prophecy" p.741 UK edition)

Now, compare that with:
`And when the creature spoke, it used Harry's mouth so that in 
his agony, he felt his jaw move

"Kill me now, Dumbledore
"
Blinded and dying, every part of him screaming for release, 
Harry felt the creature use him again

"If death is nothing, Dumbledore, kill the boy
"'
(OOTP "The Only One He Ever Feared" pp.719-20 UK edition)

In all these three instances, the speaker is having their voice 
manipulated, Trelawney by whatever is producing the prophecy, 
Harry by Voldemort's possession. In both cases, the messages 
contain pauses probably caused by this external force; hence 
the ellipses in the written record.

I may be proved wrong by DH but my own feeling at the moment 
is that, as in previous instances, we are niggling away at minutiae 
in JKR's narrative which even not exist


Geoff
Finishing with an ellipsis just for fun.