[HPforGrownups] Re: Hagrid and Draco

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 168685

> Alla:
>
> I do understand your point. I am just saying that if the precedent
> exists, abnormal or not, that the precedent exists that teacher can
> do that, the justification for that can be explained somehow.

Magpie:
There's plenty of precedent for teachers being able to be jerks to students 
if they want and getting away with it, sure.

> > Magpie:
>> It means Snape isn't rewarding Malfoy for getting hurt. Malfoy's
> getting
>> hurt just added a different variation on Snape being his usual
> annoying self
>> to Harry and Ron.
>
>
> Alla:
>
> Eh, well this is a valid interpretation. Except we read that Malfoy
> complains that he cannot cut his roots and Snape orders Ron to do
> so, so I think mine is valid as well. What do you see in the text
> contradicting my interpretation? In fact, I think it is both - Snape
> being his annoying self and Snape awarding his pet Malfoy ( my view
> obviously to see him as Snape pet) the easier lesson, making other
> boy to work for him.

Magpie:
I don't think Snape's trying to encourage Malfoy to get attacked in Hagrid's 
class more often. Perhaps Snape thinks he's giving consolation to Malfoy, 
for all I know. (He may see the situation differently than Harry does.) The 
complicated web of teachers expressing their favoritism and dislike of 
students and passing annoyances and all that is certainly there to see. But 
Snape's having Ron cut Malfoy's roots (as opposed to, say, having Goyle do 
it) doesn't make the idea of Hagrid giving him detention any less strange to 
me.


>> Magpie:
>> The lesson was to listen in class, and that he learns on his own.
> Nobody has
>> to learn to like Hagrid in class. But everybody has learned to be
> extra
>> careful and not trust Hagrid.
>
>
> Alla:
>
> Right, I thought Malfoy's lesson that he did not learn was to be
> **respectful** to Hagrid, speaking to him as he should speak to
> teacher, NOT liking him. I do not care if he fakes such respect,
> just as I do not care if Snape fakes that he is well, can tolerate
> Harry.

Magpie:
I never said that was the lesson he learned. It never really occurred to me 
that it should be. I guess Harry should also learn that lesson and never 
speak disrespectfully to Snape as well, but that's not what either teacher 
gets 100% of the time (nor do either of them give it 100% of the time). 
Hagrid does get a kid who always listens to his instructions.


> Alla:
>
> Oh, I am pretty sure we find this storyline repulsive for very
> different reasons. In fact, I am assuming that since it concerns
> Malfoy, you dislike about it what I like and vice versa <g>

> Feel free to correct me since this is just a guess about your
> opinions and I do not want to stay wrong if I am wrong.
>
> I find repulsive that little snob who had an opinion about Hagrid
> before he met him, who got hurt a little bit because he did not
> listen, felt it was perfectly okay to pretend that he was hurt oh so
> much worse to make sure Bucky is dead and Hagrid is fired.
>
> I find Hermione dealing with him to be the only satisfying part of
> that storyline.  Satisfying I mean of course in the emotional sense,
> storyline wise I am perfectly okay with it and how nicely it
> transforms in time travel, etc.  I hated how this one little twit
> with the powerful daddy  could make this huge guy so helpless, so
> desperate.  At the same time I wish I could feel more for Hagrid's
> anquish over  Bucky's possible execution. Strangely, on the hurt/
> comfort level his anguish is a bit blah for me. Wierd.

Magpie:
I find it repulsive that the whole storyline seems so calculated to 
dehumanize a character, with things shifting back and forth so that he can 
be consciously attacked for the readers enjoyment and then made into a hate 
object for it. I also don't think Hagrid's helpless in the least. I actually 
don't think it's too odd to not feel badly about Hagrid's anguish over the 
execution. Hagrid's got so many animals and always wants more that I don't 
think he comes across as really having much personal attachment to any of 
them.

I also don't have a big problem, it's true, with Malfoy having an opinion 
about Hagrid before he met him--it happens all the time. Characters have 
opinions about Lucius Malfoy without meeting him for the same reason--the 
name comes up and people report what they've heard about the person. I heard 
about plenty of teachers before I had them the same way. I don't think "This 
is what I've heard about that guy" for Hagrid any worse than if Ron had told 
Harry "That's Snape--I hear he's really mean and favors Slytherins" or 
"That's Slughorn. I've heard he's a big perv." That's too much of normal 
school talk to bother me, even if what Draco repeats isn't flattering to 
Hagrid.

Obviously it's perfectly fine that you get your enjoyment out of the story 
in different ways I do, but I'm probably not going to be convinced that that 
a different reaction than my own is more valid or that it's about karmic 
justice when I already don't find the story to be about justice. I think 
part of what I really don't like about it is that it reads to me like it's 
pretending to be about justice when it's really about something else.

-m