On the perfection of moral virtues.

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 168785

wynnleaf wrote:
> <snip> part of the problem is that Harry has not become a "better
person" through the series, but instead is presented from day 1 as a
"better person" than those he is compared with.  No, he's not
presented as perfect, but he is presented as less prejudiced, more
loving, more open-minded, etc.  Whether or not you think these things
are true about Harry (I don't) really isn't the point.  Nor is it the
point that at age 11 Harry was "braver, kinder, more generous, and
more polite" than *anyone*.  The question really is whether, as the
protagonist, Harry is any *more* of these things -- or any more of
anything else that shows internal positive change -- than he was in
the first book.  
> 
> I don't see Harry as growing through and beyond any of his 
misconceptions, character weaknesses, etc.  I'm not saying he should
have become perfect, so arguments for why characters shouldn't be 
perfect are quite correct, but don't affect the point, imo.  The 
problem is that characters *should* grow.  And I don't see Harry as 
truly growing in terms of positive character traits.
<snip>

> Yes, Harry has learned about facing Voldemort, but I didn't see that
he had to go through any changes within himself in order to do it. 
<snip> 
 I don't really see that Harry has grown much so far.  He has realized
some things about himself that were always there, but he has yet to go
through an *internal* struggle with any of his flaws or weaknesses in
which he has truly come out changed.

Carol responds:
I think I understand what you're saying. To put it into lit crit
termionolgy, Harry has always been a "round" (complex) character, in
contrast to "flat" (one-dimensional) characters like Uncle Vernon and
Bellatrix Lestrange. And to some degree, he's a "dynamic" (changing)
character, in contrast to a "static" (unchanging) character like Filch
or Voldemort. But the changes are not really character development
since he's just learning more about the WW and his parents' backstory
and how to perform certain kinds of magic, as well as variations on
adolescent anger and moodiness on the one hand and hormones on the
other. But what *isn't* happening, from your perspective, is
recognition of his faults or any attempts to overcome them. 

To the extent that the HP books are a seven-volume Bildungsroman
(coming-of-age story), we *should* expect Harry to come to maturity in
DH. It's no accident that JKR has made seventeen, Harry's age in the
final book, the age at which wizards become adults. But to fulfill the
reader's expectations, Harry will have to do more than celebrate his
seventeenth birthday. The Twins are now past seventeen, but aside from
leaving school and establishing their own business, they haven't
really grown up. They're older but no wiser, so far as I can see.

Harry, as the protagonist of a Bildungsroman, has certainly lost his
innocence to the extent that he understands that his wonderful new
world is far from being a Utopia. He's also been stripped of his
illusions regarding adults as all-wise and all-powerful. So far, so
good. But he also needs to undergo some sort of spiritual or moral
crisis that will lead to self-examination and an understanding of who
he really is, faults and all. I personally hope that the crisis will
involve Snape and forgiveness, the realization that revenge is not the
answer. At any rate, he needs to arrive at some sort of wisdom and
self-awareness which I agree he hasn't yet reached.

Harry is still Harry and that isn't going to change. It doesn't help,
IMO, that Dumbledore encourages Harry's Harryishness, for want of a
better word. When Harry saves someone who wasn't even his own hostage
(and whom Dumbledore certainly wasn't going to allow to drown),
Dumbledore rewards him with points for "moral fiber" instead of
letting him come in third. Consequently, Harry's "saving people thing"
is firmly in place when Voldemort plants the false vision in his head.
Harry has yet to learn to think things through, or to listen to those
who do (Hermione, in this case). Will that trait change? I don't know.
I don't think so since he has to save the whole WW from Voldemort.

But what about compassion and understanding of other people? Harry
doesn't have a clue that other people, especially Cho, need to know
what happened to Cedric Diggory. He doesn't understand what's
happening when Molly and Fleur accept each other's love for Bill as
valid, each in its own way. He is, however, starting to appreciate
Neville and Luna as people who, despite being eccentric or forgetful,
are not only capable of making a valuable contribution but worthy of
compassion for their own losses, which Harry now realizes are as real
and painful as his own. I was very happy to read in HBP that he felt
"a great rush of affection for both of them" at Dumbledore's funeral
Am. ed. 641-42). And he grins twice at the funeral, once looking back
fondly at Dumbledore ("Nitwit, blubber, oddment, tweak") and once when
Grawp pats Hagrid on the head (644, 643).

To me, these are hopeful signs that, for Harry, coming of age will
mean more than turning seventeen and becoming legally a man. I hope
that, as the hero of a Bildungsroman, he will develop true maturity:
insight into other people's hearts and minds, compassion for their
sorrows, forgiveness of their mistakes and shortcomings, awareness of
his own flaws.

I don't expect him to become perfect. Harry will always act before he
thinks, always procrastinate, always trust his own judgment over other
people's. He will never be an intellectual. He'll probably always care
too much about Quidditch. :-p I don't know about rule-breaking and
lying; with luck, he'll outgrow those once he permanently leaves
Hogwarts. (I expect him to return for his seventh year when he's
eighteen and has defeated Voldemort, but maybe that's wishful thinking.)

Anyway, I'm not sure whether my views exactly parallel wynnleaf's,
but, like her, I expect to see Harry actually grow and develop, as
opposed to just developing magical skills and learning about the WW
and Voldemort in the final book.

Carol, who has similar hopes for Hermione, Ron, and Neville, all of
whom also need to finish growing up and learn to know themselves