Moody's death (was: Dumbledore's authority WAS: Re: Fees for Harry)

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 179449

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
>
> Alla:
> > 
> > I thought he was trying really hard to save the lives of his 
> > soldiers, to do everything possible to make sure they survive that 
> > fight. RIGHT. Instead he pretty much IMO gives them all as pigs for 
> > slaughters for DE to make sure Snape is even more in favor of 
> > Voldemort? As if he was not enough.
> > 
> 
> Pippin:
> Does it matter how many soldiers' lives are saved 
> if the war is lost?
> 
> It's no different than Gandalf counselling Eomer and Aragorn
> to lead their forces against the Black Gate, IMO. As Gandalf said 
> himself, it was not a prudent choice and the only purpose was to give 
> the Ringbearer's mission a better chance. 
> 
> Certainly no common soldiers were asked for their opinion, nor was it 
> explained to them that they were being marched to certain death for the 
> sake of a secret mission that was no more than a fool's hope in
> the first place. So I guess Gandalf, Aragorn and Eomer by your
definition 
> would not be  good people either. 

Renee:

Mentions of Tolkien always wake me up...

>From Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King, Chapter "The Black
Gate opens"

"Upon the fourth day from the Cross-roads (...) they came at last to
the end of the living lands, and began to pass into the desolation
that lay before the gates of the Pass of Cirit Gorgor. (...) So
desolate were those places and so deep the horror that lay on them
that some of the host were unmanned, and they could neither walk nor
ride further north.

Aragorn looked at them, and there was pity in his eyes rather than
wrath; for these were young men from Rohan, from Westfold far away, or
husbandmen from Lossarnach, and to them Mordor had been from childhood
a name of evil, and yet unreal (...); and now they walked like men in
a hideous dream made true (...).

'Go!' said Aragorn. 'But keep what honour you may, and do not run! And
there is a task which you may attempt and so be not wholly shamed.
Take your way south-west till you come to Cair Andros, and if tht is
still held by enemies, then retake it, if you can, and hold it to the
last in defence of Gondor and Rohan.'

Then some being shamed by his mercy overcame their fear and went on,
and the others took new hope, hearing of a manful deed within their
measure that they could turn to, and they departed."

It seems to me that the common soldiers, though they aren't asked for
their opinion, clearly have a choice here. Aragorn is merciful and
allows them to leave if they want (he doesn't even explicitly forbid
them to go home, though he suggests they do something useful if they
do turn back). And as I don't read about Gandalf or Eomer objecting to
this, I guess they agree with Aragorn.   

What this does make clear, is that it's very hard to run from a war
altogether. But those who don't have the heart to act as bait
certainly get a chance to do something less hopeless than marching to
certain death. They do have a choice. Just like the people in the
Seven Potters episode, actually (except for Mundungus Fletcher, one
might argue). They take the risk willingly, they know what could
happen, and I fail to see the resemblance with pigs for slaughter. I
see nothing in the text that tells me they were coerced to participate.  
 
<snip>

> Alla:
> > And hate Snape as I am, I sure give him credit here for saving Lupin. 
> > OMG. Saving Lupin of all people.
> 
> Pippin:
> Ah, but you see, if Snape had not been so high in Voldemort's favor,
> he might not have been there to save Lupin. 
> 
Renee:
If I'm not mistaken, Snape doesn't actually save Lupin, as he misses
the Death Eater's wand hand and cuts off George's ear instead. Lupin
survives because the Death Eater apparently misses as well. I agree
it's the intention that counts, though.

Renee