Dark Book - Blood and Cruelty/ Draco

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 177302

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > So why have I bothered with this argument...  I think because I   
> > see it as a bit disingenuous to say Harry's less popular than     
> > Draco and also an everyman.  Though it's more JKR who's being    
> > disingenuous than anyone making that particular argument. <SNIP>

> >>Alla:
> Well, thank you, LOL that you agreed to not consider my argument to 
> be disingenuous. Since I most certainly among those making it.
> I usually think of everybody's argument as not disingenious by 
> default.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I don't. <eg>  But I do acknowledge that in this case, people 
have been pulled in by JKR's clever ways.  She'd make an incredibly 
good propagandist.

> >>Alla:
> I think she just makes the cake, personally and find her to be a    
> very good baker, LOL.

Betsy Hp:
Don't eat it Alla!  It's evil!! LOL.

> >>Betsy Hp: 
> > From the moment Harry entered the magical world he was a         
> > superstar that far outshone the Malfoy family name.  But JKR has 
> > set Draco up to fulfill a certain trope.  So the superstar is    
> > made a nerd by virtue of his glasses, and the underdog is made    
> > the BMOC by virtue of his blond hair and poncy accent.  <SNIP>

> >>Alla:
> You start from establishing something as a fact and proceed to     
> build your argument on the premise that does not work for          
> everybody, but since you say it as a fact, it looks like the other 
> reading is somehow less supported by the text.

Betsy Hp:
Hmm...  Not on purpose I assure you.  If anyone can point to the 
Slytherin table cheering "We've got Malfoy!" or heck, the Gryffindor 
table cheering "We've got Granger!" at Harry's Sorting...  Or if 
someone could point out the scene where Draco's hand is continuously 
shaken by strangers thrilled with the chance to meet him...  Or if 
someone could point out a teacher falling off their chair because 
they're so excited that Draco's in their classroom...  Or if someone 
could point out another student that has a top-of-the-line broom 
purchased for them by Hogwarts...

Then, yeah, I'll agree that it's just my *opinion* that people in the 
WW are a bit more interested in the name "Harry Potter" than "Draco 
Malfoy". <g>

> >>Alla:
> In this paragraph you also switch from Harry's position in Hogwarts 
> in comparison to Draco to Harry's position in the WW as in          
> comparison to Draco.

Betsy Hp:
Probably because I do see them as interchangable.  Harry is huge in 
the WW and that transfers to his place in the school.  (Unless 
someone can point out all those scenes that show Harry's experience 
is rather ho-hum and normal, of course. <g>)

> >>Alla
> Chosen one is surely well known in WW, although Malfoy's name seems 
> pretty well known to me to - Board of Governors and all that. Oh,   
> and Harry not being in WW for eleven years also IMO helps equal the 
> stakes.

Betsy Hp:
Actually (and I suspect this might be the rub) Harry has nothing to 
do with his fame.  Not in the sense that it's something Harry 
purposefully created.  His presence was not required for his legend 
to grow (obviously as he's not been around as you point out) and he 
doesn't need to work to maintain his celebrity.  Nor, IMO, does Harry 
want to.  *Harry* doesn't care for being, and at first doesn't 
realize that he is, a superstar.  But just because Harry didn't ask 
for it doesn't make it not so. 

> >>Alla:
> So, if we are back to Hogwarts, I will just say what Amy said for   
> the most part, I especially liked  that popularity does not equal   
> that other word.

Betsy Hp:
I missed that, what other word?  BMOC or big man on campus?  Actually 
those two words are interchangable.  And they're not actually a 
commentary on someone's personality.  As Harry can be an example of.  
Again, Harry doesn't seek to be nor work to maintain his status 
as "best known boy at Hogwarts".  He's *annoyed* by the girls chasing 
him.  But the fact is, he's well known and girls chase him.

> >>Alla:
> But specifically, NO so called superstar is not made a nerd by the 
> virtue of his glasses IMO, he is made a nerd ( and being a well    
> known person at the same time) by growing apart from this world, by 
> knowing nothing about his heritage and has to fit in the whole new 
> world and of course by dealing with something that school has no   
> problem ostracising him for from time to time.

Betsy Hp:
Harry *sees himself* as an Everyman, yes.  And he sees himself as an 
outsider.  That's where JKR gets you.  Because that's how Harry 
*feels*.  But the actual point of fact is that the WW definintely 
sees Harry as belonging to *them* not the muggle-world.  And when you 
look at what he actually experiences at school, Harry is treated like 
a BMOC.

And honestly, being on the outs is the dark side of being BMOC.  
IIRC, Harry suffered the most in PS/SS after that massive point loss 
*because* everyone knew him to blame him.  Neville didn't get it 
quite as bad because Neville wasn't as popular to begin with.

> >>Alla:
> And so called "underdog" - because to me he is no underdog in any   
> way shape or form is not made BMOC by virtue of his hair and accent.
> He is made one by what he does and what he stands for in my view.

Betsy Hp:
And the hair and the accent help show you what he stands for.  Draco 
is an upperclass white boy.  Which, in JKR's world, equals evil as 
surely as a pretty girl who likes being pretty. <g>  

Draco is an underdog by virtue of being a Slytherin.  He's a jewish 
boy in 1930's Germany.  A black boy in 1830's USA.  He's the outsider 
and the scapegoat of his world and that gets demonstrated to him (and 
us) by his being beat-down time and again.  There is not a clash with 
Harry that Draco doesn't lose.  (Except for that train scene in HBP 
which I loved. <g>)

The above is my opinion of course.  It's why I think these books are 
evil.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Which means, I suppose, that per JKR Draco is the BMOC and        
> > totally popular with everyone and would win every single         
> > quidditch match and poor Harry just has to struggle to get by.    
> > Oh, but Harry always, always, wins and no one really likes 
> > Draco at all. 

> >>Alla:
> Nobody likes Draco at all? Seems like he has a plenty of Slytherin 
> friends to me. 

Betsy Hp:
Well yes.  Evil likes evil.  But does Draco ever have a group of 
Hufflpuffs and Ravenclaws standing behind him when he takes on 
Harry?  (Hmm... I'm not sure Draco ever has other houses laughing 
with him for that matter.  JKR's pretty strict about segregating out 
the Slytherins.  Don't want the unclean to mingle after all.)

> >>Alla:
> And the funny thing is, I really do believe JKR when she writes    
> that, I really do believe her that in every new struggle with Draco 
> Harry has to fight and often for his life to win.
> 
> With me she succeeded brilliantly. 

Betsy Hp:
I think the way she spins it is that *Harry* sees himself as the 
underdog.  And since we're in Harry's POV, and encouraged to like and 
agree with him, I think that's where this idea that this kid who's 
never beaten Harry before might just succeed now.

It's clever.  I'll give JKR that. But it doesn't do enough to 
convince me. 

Betsy Hp