The Sword of Gryffindor

[Annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 182607

Oh, heavens, I just saw somebody go by, walking a little dog that was 
wearing a little pink shirt and a diaper.  O.o

Where was I...?  Oh, yeah, HP...

Well, Mike, I pretty much agree with your post.  Just a few quick 
comments:



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:
>
> Mike:
 
> I think it was the Hat that brings the Sword, through it's own 
> magical ability. The Sword is only summoned magically twice and 
both 
> times it comes from the Hat. It may need to be "taken under 
> conditions of need and valor" in order to function properly, but 
> there is no indication that those same conditions will summon the 
> Sword to a true Gryffindor. On the contrary, Snape has to become 
the 
> modus of transport to get the Sword to Harry in the Forest of Dean.

Annemehr:

Seriously good point.  So is your observation (snipped) that DD was 
not around to hide the sword in the hat in DH.  Not to mention, it 
was in Goblin hands at the time, anyway.

 
> > Carol responds:
> > <snip>
> >  and if he doesn't expect Harry, as a Parselmouth, to succeed 
> > where he has failed.
> 
> Mike:
> A quick point here. I'm not sure that DD can't speak 
Parseltongue.<snip>

Annemehr:

I find it impossible to believe that DD was not a Parselmouth.  He 
certainly understood everything the Gaunts said in that language.  
This in turn, along with the petrifications, makes it more than 
likely that he knew Riddle was unleashing a basilisk all those years 
ago.

Either that, or it's one tremendous plot hole.  I haven't decided 
which it is, yet.  (There are plenty of plot holes, in any case.)

 
> Mike:
> <snip> On the one hand, I can't conceive of DD not sussing 
> out the monster being a Basilisk. OTOH, would DD chance his 
champion 
> being killed this early on in the battle against Voldemort?  
> 
> > Carol:
> > The only question in my mind is whether he also thought that
> > Harry would encounter the Heir of Slytherin (Tom Riddle or
> > Voldemort) in some form and, if so, how he thought that Fawkes
> > and the Sword of Gryffindor would help him. <snip>
> 
> Mike:
> As you have pointed out, DD is aware that Voldemort is still around
> in his vapor form and in Albania. I don't think DD is aware of the 
> Diary nor that it is a Horcrux until after the encounter. I think 
DD 
> already suspects Tom has made Horcrux(es) and may already suspect 
> that Harry has a piece of Voldemort's soul in him. His comments in 
> the wrap-up debrief suggested this to many of us.
> 
> Like you, I can't figure how DD would expect Harry to encounter 
some 
> form of Tom/LV. But if I wanted to think the worst of DD, I would 
say 
> that he wanted Harry to get into this scrap and either prove 
himself 
> worthy of further training or die trying. And if DD suspected 
> Harry!Crux, he would also know that Basilisk venom would destroy a 
> Horcrux. One down, some unknown number to go.
> 
> I can't see even the most manipulative version of Dumbledore being 
> that cold. Others mileage may vary. 
> 
> Mike, wondering just how much of a bastard was this Dumbledore guy
>

Annemehr:

DD expected Harry to encounter some form of LV/Riddle because the 
Chamber is being opened by some form of LV/Riddle.

The way DD speaks of Harry's scar in PS/SS indicates that he has some 
knowledge of what it is.  How, you ask?  Through the prophecy, 
perhaps?  Through that ability he showed in HBP to "sense magic"?  We 
are never told, but the fact is evident that DD knew *this* scar was 
special -- after all, there's not a hint of any other "scar magic" in 
the story, and plenty of healing or lamenting of other scars.

Add to this your observation that at the end of CoS, DD exhibits 
knowledge that there's "a bit of" LV in Harry.  Since when?  Since 
the Parseltongue incident in the dueling club, or even before?  Maybe 
since the first time he looked into Harry's eyes (as OoP shows he can 
see LV there)?  Before that, even?  Is it just one HUGE coincidence 
that DD's lieutenent (or stooge), Snape, had Draco set a snake on 
Harry?

DD either knows things, or this is atrocious writing.

And I have to say, it really does seem that DD *is* "that cold."  

We know he let Tom Riddle go and do as he willed, when Riddle left 
school, after turning Riddle down for a job, even though DD knew just 
what kind of person he was.  He KNEW Tom was a murderer.  And don't 
forget, he lived in the same castle as one of the victims -- Myrtle --
 whom nobody ever asked about her death until Harry did.  DD didn't 
need to, because he already knew.  Or, it's another plot hole, eh?

As you point out, DD knew Harry had a bit of LV's soul.  In dealing 
with this, does he act for the greater good?

He trained Harry to face LV.  He brought Harry to the point where he 
could "sacrifice" his life in such a way that the soul bit would be 
destroyed while Harry had at least a chance of surviving.  This is 
the ONLY answer to "why Harry?"  Otherwise, why not re-vaporise the 
old reprobate and take your own sweet time finding all the Hxes?

As for the question of DD risking his champion too early, well, it 
was all necessary to getting Harry to that crucial sacrificial 
moment.  And should Harry fail, then as you point out, it's one 
Horcrux down.

Meanwhile, of course, countless other people had their lives taken or 
ruined before the big sacrificial moment arrived. 

" 'I cared about you too much,' said Dumbledore simply.  'I cared 
[...] more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the 
plan failed.' " (OoP ch. 37)

What about the lives lost because the plan succeeded, eh?

Annemehr,
thinking idly that DD ought to have just made Vapor!Mort himself into 
a Horcrux and stuck him on the shelf next to the Hat and the Sword.