Dumbledore the Manipulator WAS :Re: Sirius and Snape parallels again

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 185112


> > Pippin:
> > If he didn't feel it was the right thing to do, his guilt would 
show
> > itself. I don't see any signs of that. He has that big guilty 
moment
> > in HBP, but we're not told who it's for. So it's probably for
> > everyone, everyone  he couldn't save, I think. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> The last moment I see of Snape when he hears about Dumbledore's 
plan 
> is pig for slaughter. I do not see anything to the contrary, him 
> expressing that this is such a cool idea. His guilt does not show, 
> neither does his hearty approval. I believe that this means that he 
> felt it was a wrong thing to do, but he would do so since it was 
> Dumbledore's orders and he always followed them.
> 

Julie:
I don't think it's just a question of what is the right
or wrong thing to do, nor of simply following orders. Fact
is, what could Snape do to change anything? Voldemort has
always been determined to find and kill Harry, and there is
no way Snape can stop a confrontation between Harry and
Voldemort (even if Snape could hide Harry indefinitely, 
Harry is hardly going to go with Snape willingly). True,
Snape had always assumed Harry at least had some chance
of survival, but even knowing Harry apparently has no chance
doesn't give Snape any viable alternative options.

Well, I suppose he has one option--to tell Harry everything
Dumbledore has told him. But what would be the point when
it won't change Harry's fate? Nor would such foreknowledge
be of any help to Harry, more likely it would be a burden.
I think that's how Snape would see it, whether he withholds
the truth for Harry's sake, or for the sake of winning the
war, or both.

And while Harry may have been Snape's primary concern (due
to his promise to Lily), I think Snape did have a secondary
goal of destroying Voldemort. Voldemort is the one who 
actually killed Lily, after all. I also think Snape has 
change during the time he's worked for Dumbledore and
against Voldemort. At the beginning he didn't care about
anyone's fate except Lily's. By the time he and Dumbledore
are discussing Harry's grim fate Snape has become someone
who "saves those he can", as he later saves Lupin. He doesn't
have to like those he saves, and he certainly doesn't like
Lupin, but he saves them because it is the right thing to
do. And I believe he accepts Dumbledore's "plan" not only
because Harry's confrontation and ultimate death has become
all but unavoidable, but also because it is the better of
two unpleasant future options--Voldemort killing Harry 
and taking over the WW, or the two killing each other and
the WW being free of Voldemort (and Harry dies either way).
> 
> 
> > Alla:
> >  How about Dumbledore doing  some brainstorming and trying to 
figure
> > out whether Horcrux can be  taken out of alive Harry? How about
> > Dumbledore involving Harry in it?
> > 
> > Pippin:
> > 
> > Right, DD needs a Manhattan Project -- get all the best minds in
> > wizarding together and they can make a lot of horcruxes to 
> experiment
> > with. You do see some ethical problems with that, I hope? 
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Um, with your scenario sure, however that was not mine. I was 
talking 
> about book research, not horcrux making. I thought it was obvious 
> that I would not expect Dumbledore to do real life demonstration, 
lol.
> 
> 
> 

Julie:
I recall in one of JKR's interviews she said Dumbledore
had no close confidante. I also recall we discussed at the
time why McGonagall, or even Snape (as Dumbledore trusted
him so completely), wasn't that confidante. I believe the 
consensus was that no one was of Dumbledore's stature
as a wizard, thus he bore the burden of decision-making
alone, and I originally assumed Dumbledore was protecting
others from that "burden," and willingly taking any guilt
for failure upon himself.

Now I think Dumbledore wasn't protecting others so much 
as he apparently viewed them as incapable in comparison
to himself. Granted, the fewer people who know critical
information, the less likely that information is to end up
compromised. But I do think Dumbledore could have shared
more than he did, and earlier than he did. Those working
for him deserve the courtesy of being given all knowledge
that reasonably would protect them. Snape should have known
the facts about the true ownership of the Elder wand, for
instance. 

And maybe by "brainstorming" about certain tactics, others
would have come up with better options at various junctures.
Dumbledore bemoaned his bad decisions and errors in judgment,
and admitted at least in words that he is as fallible as the
next person (or more so, since his mistakes are "bigger"). 
Yet with someone(s) to use as a sounding board, to bounce
ideas off and refine or rework questionable strategies, there 
would have been fewer and smaller mistakes, IMO. 

Dumbledore was always trying to do the right thing for the
most benefit to Wizarding society, but he couldn't see that
figuring out the right thing can't--or shouldn't--be the purview
of a single person, no matter how "great" or wise that person
may be.

Julie