Manipulation in Potterverse and in general /Tigana spoilers

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 185147

> Pippin:
> "I think he knows more or less everything that goes on here, you 
know.
> I reckon he had a pretty good idea that we were going to try, and
> instead of stopping me, he just taught us enough to help. I don't
> think it's an accident he let me find out how the Mirror worked. 
It's
> almost like he thought I had the right to face Voldemort if I 
could."
> 
> --PS/SS ch17
> Well, we know that Harry's wrong: Dumbledore *doesn't* know about
> everything that goes on at Hogwarts. Dark wizards can fool him,
> everyone knows that.  The proof is that everyone knows what happened
> in the dungeons in Book One,and no character that we know of thinks
> that Dumbledore should have known Quirrell was possessed. That part 
of
> the theory is full on tinfoil, IMO.

Alla:

Um, we know that Harry is wrong? Quite the contrary, I think he is 
absolutely 100% dead on in the part that he thinks that Dumbledore 
let him face Voldemort. I am completely unpersuaded by your proof, 
because I do not see the relevance of your deduction and it is IMO 
just a deduction. Why WOULD characters say that Dumbledore should 
have known that Quirrell was possessed? How does it prove that 
Dumbledore **did** not know?

I used to be very sceptical about conspiracy theories Pippin, I still 
do not think that the largest of them are correct. I do not agree 
that Dumbledore is the main evil in the Potterverse for example, but 
I think that he is so gray that he is almost on the black end of the 
spectrum. But this part? Um, I used to believe that Dumbledore was, 
well the dolt that let Harry do it, now I think that he let Harry do 
it very very deliberately and yes, I think canon gives us plenty of 
hints.

That part that you cited is to me the strongest, since I do not see 
why as I wrote above any of the characters would ever bother to say 
that. Supposedly Harry understood that, to me it is plenty enough. 
Especially since I believe that initially (and I can be wrong) JKR 
did not know whether the next book in the series will be published or 
not, and wanted PS stand up on its own, more or less. I can be wrong, 
but I believe I read it somewhere. So, mystery that stands on its own 
should have the resolution and I do not believe that lie is counts as 
one. But this is just an aside, as I said I believe Dumbledore 
knowing full well, or highly suspecting what was happening is pretty 
much canon.

Dumbledore tells Snape to keep an eye on Quirrell, does he not? Erm, 
why would you think he takes such a special interest in him? I think 
he strongly suspected that Quirrell is *up to something*, and yes, I 
think up to something being Voldemort was at least among the 
possibilities on his mind.

And then this lovely chat with Dumbledore at the end again - 

"Oh, you know about Nicholas?" said Dumbledore, sounding quite 
delighted. "You did do the thing properly, didn't you?" Well, 
Nicholas and I had a little chat, and agreed it's all for the best" - 
p.297.

So, what thing did Harry do **properly** if not the one that 
Dumbledore set up for him? Oh no, I do not think that Dumbledore 
setting up book 1 is a subversive reading at all, I think it is if 
not plain meaning of the text canon, it is very close to such, IMO of 
course.

Now if we were to think about the reasons Dumbledore did that, then 
of course we can enter into different degrees of subversiveness IMO.

As an aside, my hat goes off to SSSusan again, even though she argued 
it in a bit different context. Yes, him having a little chat with 
Nicholas Flanel to me points very strongly that he made sure that he 
wanted Nicholas and Perenelle to put their affairs asap. And yes, I 
have no doubt that for greater good Dumbledore would not mind anybody 
to be dead. Do I think Flanell was afraid of death? No, of course not.

However they had been living for 600 years or so and before that 
little chat they as far as we know did not seem to express any desire 
to be gone to their next adventure asap. My guess is that they would 
not have minded at all to live another hundred years or to, and here 
comes Dumbledore, ooops.

Pippin:
<SNIP>
> It's just a stupid kid idea, like turning yourself into an Animagus 
so
> you can play pranks with a werewolf in Hogsmeade.

Alla:

That's your right of course to think that this was just a stupid 
kid's idea and of course Dumbledore explained to Harry how Mirror 
works completely by accident, LOL.

Me thinks that this stupid kid's idea was given to them by Albus.

JMO,

Alla