Muggles v wizards redux

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 183252

 Magpie:
> <SNIP>
> A good Wizard is somebody who doesn't seek out faceless
> Muggles to torment. They can be condescending, manipulate them, have
> no respect for them, make decisions for them and generally treat 
them
> as inferior.
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> No, I disagree with some of it. I do not remember Arthur making 
> decisions for muggles or manipulating them. I would say that  good 
> wizard can be condescending to muggles, but that is pretty much it 
in 
> my opinion. Now when those muggles are horrible people as well, 
then 
> it is a a different story IMO.

Magpie:
I don't have to come up with examples of every single character doing 
these things to point out they're done casually as part of the world-
building. Arthur is fine with memory charms, even when they have some 
bad side effects or have to be done ten times a day to keep the 
Muggle "happy." He enters the Dursley house as the master because 
he's the Wizard. Ron informs us even the ordinary request for Harry 
to come to the QWC is just for show and they're coming whether the 
Muggles want them or not--and they'll be hooking up the fireplace to 
the floo without telling them too, another thing they wouldn't do 
with Wizards. (And yes the Dursleys are awful but so are the Malfoys. 
The difference is that Arthur is paternalistic in his dealings with 
the former and not the latter. )

> Magpie:
> I wouldn't be satisfied with that attitude, that as long as I 
behaved
> as a good little Muggle and never did anything to deserve punishment
> from a Wizard (and it would be the Wizard decided when I deserved 
it)
> I'd be happy. First, because I wouldn't just assume I deserved
> whatever abuse I got. And second because I could be the best Muggle
> in the world and still wouldn't be treated with respect.
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Well, I am not necessarily talking about being all that happy. I am 
> just disputing of how badly one will be treated if one cannot do 
> magic. But I also wonder why you will not be satisfied that as long 
> as you do not hurt another person, nobody will touch you? I 
certainly 
> would think that it is should be that way between wizards and 
muggles 
> and wizards etc.

Magpie:
Because it's not just "don't hurt us and we won't hurt you." It's 
Muggles being inferior beings--I wouldn't be happy accepting that I 
was the inferior being and the second class citizen. Also these are 
people who almost never reflect on their own behavior and always 
consider themselves justified and they're the ones who get to decide 
what's fair treatment for me. (And if they step over the line, well, 
I'm sure they'll do better next time.)

Alla: 
> Again, I am all for getting rid of patronizing attitudes, I just do 
> not buy that good guys have something more than that to improve.

Magpie:
Patronizing attitudes that they need to improve makes it sound like a 
superficial thing, like they need to improve their table manners. 
They have the attitudes because they think Muggles are inferior 
beings and that comes out in all different ways in the way they treat 
them. I thought this type of thing was supposed to be central to the 
definition of evil in the books. Why does it matter all those times 
when people get mad about people judging people based on what they're 
born as?

 
> Magpie:
> The people at the QWC who get memory charmed, some to the point of
> total confusion, the Grangers and the parents of every other
> Muggleborn who aren't treated with the same respect as Wizard
> parents, the many random people who are just sources of amusements
> for Wizards, every Muggle who's treated as an idiot, the Muggles who
> are randomly hexed to make them more docile to whatever the Wizard
> wants.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Right, well memory charms to random muggles, normally I would 
agree, 
> just hard to do so here. When Grangers are not treated with 
respect? 
> Are you talking about Hermione?

Magpie:
Almost every single interaction between Hermione and her parents 
shows them not being respected as parents the way Wizards are. 
Hermione doesn't just lie to them to do what she wants like Ron (or a 
regular teenager) might lie to his parents when he wants to do 
something he knows they won't let him do or will punish him for. She 
assumes the highest authority in the family because she's the witch. 
She makes decisions about them rather than vice versa. She lies 
because it's easier than telling the truth because they're Muggles. 
And I know there's a justification for everything she does but take a 
step back and that's their whole relationship.

-m