GoF CH 13-16 Post DH look

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 181866

zgirnius:
Not sure what to snip, and I will probably respond to all of it
anyway...First, was he surprised at the end that Moody was dodgy in
any way, or that Moody was the (supposedly) deceased Barty Crouch,
Jr.? We have discussed in the past that after having ihs warnings
brushed aside, and then being proved somewhat wrong in the previous
year, Snape may have wanted to have more than vague suspicions of yet
another loyal Order member to take to Dumbledore. All of which put
together could explain being cautious around "Moody" AND not
expressing any suspicions, and still being surprised in the end.

 Alla:

Hmmm, you make interesting points. So are you basically saying here 
that Snape may have indeed suspected Moody of being an impostor but 
was worried that after Sirius' fiasco Dumbledore will tell him to go 
jump in the lake?

What are you basing this on? No, not the psychological justification 
for Snape not going to Dumbledore with his suspicions if he had any, 
I can see that, but the idea that he indeed **had** those suspicions?

I mean, you are arguing that he was only surprised at the identity of 
the impostor, but not at the fact that Moody was an impostor? Again, 
I am just not sure where you are seeing this in canon.


Zgirnius:
Second, in Ch. 13-16, GoF, did Snape really know that Dumbledore
trusts him? Or was this a matter regarding which he could have been
in some doubt? In "The Egg and the Eye" (jumping ahead) he angrily
asserts Dumbledore trusts him. This could be a bluff. It could also
reflect a change from the start of GoF: that later chapter is after
the Yule Ball and thus after the "we sort too soon" conversation
of "The Prince's Tale", in which Dumbledore sounds Snape out about
his intentions in light of Voldemort's impending return, and seem
impressed with Snape's resolve to resume his spying.


Alla:

Curious. As I said, I can totally see Dumbledore being angry at Snape 
after Sirius' fiasco, I have read the idea that the fact that Moody 
was patrolling the corridors instead of Snape sorta shows that, I am 
sure I brought it even here at one time, but do you think Dumbledore 
indeed took away his trust that lightly?

I mean, not that I would put it past Dumbledore and not that I would 
have trusted Snape who did not give a d*mn about Potters even when he 
came to Dumbledore, but supposedly Dumbledore accepted his promise 
and gave him a chance, you think he forgot all that or indeed deep in 
his heart he thought that once a Death eater, always a death eater?

Now if Dumbledore was indeed trusting Snape all the time, but Snape 
is just not sure about it, being insecure or something and now here 
is DD old friend, who may whisper stuff in Dumbledore's ear about 
him, yeah I guess I can see that.




Zgirnius:
Third, if DD trusts both Moody and Snape, and Snape trusts DD's
judgment of Moody, but Moody does not trust *Snape* and Snape knows
it...Snape might be avoiding confrontation. Moody is supposed to be
there to help keep an eye on things during the TWT, and having him
waste lots of time on Snape is counterproductive.

Alla:

I really like that, but for someone who is sure of DD's trust, Snape 
seems to me to be a little too defensive.

Oy, I think he is afraid of Moody, but again why?


Carol:
That's a tough one and I don't know the answer. However, I think that
anyone except maybe Dumbledore feels uncomfortable under the magical
eye, and Snape knows that the real Moody doesn't trust him, so that
makes him uncomfortable, too. And yet Snape can out-Occlumens
*Voldemort*, so it's odd that he would be discomposed by the man he
thinks is Moody. If he suspected "Moody" to be an imposter, I think
he'd be deliberately making eye contact, at least with the normal eye,
to use Legilimency on him.  <SNIP>


Alla:

Right, again I am just wondering why so uncomfortable, maybe Moody 
knows something compromising about Snape, but it would be good pre 
DH, Snape knows that he is loyal, etc, why not look at Moody and 
laugh at him? Or whatever, just look at him, since Snape does not 
seem to ever laugh.

I do not know though about if he suspected, he would use a 
Legilimency, I mean, how does he know that the other person cannot do 
legilimency as well and use it on him?



zgirnius:
My answer...why not? Voldemort does not need to successfully cast
Imperius on Harry. He's going to kill him, not suborn him. And there
may be Bella-like reasoning occuring as well - surely Harry cannot
resist the Imperius of VOLDEMORT, the most powerful Dark Wizard that
ever lived...


Alla:

Because it is  a weapon? Why hand Harry a weapon?

Zanooda:
My favorite one: Fake!Moody needed Harry to win the tournament, so he
taught him how to resist Imperius curse, fearing that Karkaroff will
use it on Harry in order to assure Krum's victory.

<SNIP>


Alla:

Love and second one too.