Who needs Harry? (was: GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look/ Snape and Harry redux)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 182290

> >>Magpie wrote:
> > I think you're missing my point, which is that I'm completely off-
> > book here.
> > <snip>
> > But there's a big world out there of limitless possiblities.     
> > <snip>

> >>Carol reponds:
> Well, sure. Anything can happen. Superman can come in and defeat LV 
> if we're going out of the book.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Well, no.  Superman doesn't exist in the universe JKR created. (I'm 
not sure he'd even exist as a comic book character -- not much Muggle 
pop culture in JKR's world.)   Magpie isn't suggesting going out of 
JKR's world.  She's just looking at how things could have worked 
outside of the *plot*.  (At least, that's what I think she's 
suggesting.  Correct me if I'm wrong. <g>)

> >>Carol:
> But my point is that *within the book* there's only one known
> Basilisk, and Harry, as the unwitting possessor of a soul bit
> belonging to the Heir of Slytherin, is the only one who can open the
> CoS, destroy the Basilisk, and make the Sword of Gryffindor capable 
> of destroying Horcruxes.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
True.  But a Basilisk stained Gryffindor sword isn't the only way to 
destroy Horcruxes.  Actually, they were rather easy to destroy if you 
had the knack.  Not for school children, of course.  But any Dark 
Art's expert should have been able to do it easy-peasy. (I mean if 
*Crabbe* could call up the proper destructive force, I'm quite 
confident an Unspeakable should have had the proper skills.)

> >>Carol:
> And Dumbledore, for all his intelligence, can't find and destroy   
> all the Horcruxes even though he suspects that they exist until the 
> events at Godric's Hollow make it possible.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
IIRC, doesn't it take Dumbledore running across the destroyed diary 
horcrux to figure out that this is what's keeping Voldemort alive?  
Which... yeah, I'm not all that impressed with Dumbledore's vaunted 
intelligence, quite frankly.  Especially as his grand plan nearly 
fell down around his ears.  (Isn't it Dumbledore's plans that 
generally end up with someone on his side dead?)

I agree with Magpie that unfortunately JKR had to create an Idiot 
World for Harry to be its great hope.  But assuming a modicum of 
deductive ability and a strong enough desire to overthrow Voldemort, 
any group of wizards should have figured it all out.  

Frankly, I think Dumbledore, with his inability to play well with 
others, and the comforting but in the end weakening reliance on Harry 
to save them all, *prevented* Voldemort's destruction.  Because 
Dumbledore was so stuck on the prophecy (*Harry* had to be the one to 
do it) and because he refused to form any kind of think-tank, no one 
did anything while Voldemort's power grew.

> >>Carol:
> <snip>
> Harry and Harry alone is "the one with the power to defeat          
> Voldemort."
> He has "the power that Voldemort knows not" (sacrificial love)...   

Betsy Hp:
I'm still unclear on how "sacrificial love" destroyed Voldemort.  I 
mean, it caused Voldemort's AK to rebound, but wouldn't a plain old 
AK have done?  All Harry's "love shield" seemed to do was prevent him 
from actually doing the deed.  

[Philosophical aside: Though really, in the end he did kill Voldemort 
right?  I mean, sure he self-defended Voldemort to death, but it was 
because of Harry Voldemort died.  Harry not being an actual killer 
seems more like a technical out, IMO.]

And there wasn't anything about Harry's love that helped him find the 
Horcruxes.  They just kind of fell into his lap.  (Some more 
organically than others.)

> >>Carol:
> ...and Voldemort has made him his "equal," not in power or ability 
> but in the ability to speak Parseltongue...
> <snip> 
> ...and get into Voldie's mind via the soul bit, an ability that no 
> one else has (though perhaps DD did some undetectable Legilimency   
> when Tom was in his office applying for the DADA position).
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But that's just what gave Harry a personal edge in figuring out 
Voldemort's next move.  It meant that Harry didn't need to be all 
that observant or smart to find the horcruxes.  But a wizard or witch 
with more intelligence and skill than Harry should have been able to 
figure Voldemort out.  It's not like Voldemort was all that 
complicated.

Now, we don't actually *meet* any intelligent or observant wizards or 
witches, so a certain level of stupidity may well be part and parcel 
of JKR's world.  As Magpie points out, they kind of seemed eager for 
some form of Overlord, whether Voldemort or Dumbledore or Harry in 
the end.  But, take away that base level of stupidity, and some basic 
detective work would have given those working against Voldemort the 
same information Harry gains through his ability to eavesdrop on 
Voldemort.

This is part of the reason the series fell apart for me, honestly.  
Not only did it not make sense that everything relied on Harry, the 
WW suffered more *because* they relied so much on Harry.  There was 
nothing that occurred in book 7 that showed me why a crack group of 
wizards couldn't have defeated Voldemort way back before Harry was 
even born.  In fact, it made it rather embarrassing for all involved 
that Voldemort *wasn't* defeated.  At least, IMO. <g>

Betsy Hp (great believer in deductive reasoning <bg>)