On Letters (was Re: Hmmm. What's your favourite *now*?)

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 183065

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "montavilla47" <montavilla47 at ...> wrote:

Montavilla47:
> > > I know Harry and Dudley don't like each other, but they
> > > have a common goal.  Working together they probably
> > > could have come up with a good plan.

Geoff:
> > I think their realtaionship was beyond "don't like". I think the
> > only reason he expressed an interest was because Harry, who 
> > usually was the "Oliver Twist" of the family was actually getting 
> > something which wasn't a cast-off from him.
> 
Montavilla47:
> I don't know about that, Geoff.  Dudley and Harry are talking to
> each other, which shows that they can carry on a civil 
> conversation.  And they both get thrown out of the kitchen when
> the first letters arrive, a common outrage that could have built
> into cooperation towards a common goal.

Geoff:
Their behaviour at tis point doesn't suggest a common outrage, 
rather a fierce competition:

'"OUT!" roared Uncle Vernon and he took both Harry and Dudley by 
the scruff of their necks and threw them into the hall, slamming the 
kitchen door behind them. Harry and Dudley promptly had a furious 
but silent fight over who would listen at the keyhole; Dudley won, so 
Harry, his glasses dangling from one ear, lay flat on his stomach to
listen at the crack between door and floor.'
(PS T"he Letters from No One", p.31 UK edition)

This is an interesting outworking of cooperation towards a common goal...
:-)
 
Montavilla47 (before):
> > > May I remind everyone that Harry turns out to the most talented 
> > > seeker in one hundred years at Hogwarts?  This scene is like that 
> > > key room, except Harry doesn't have to snatch one special key--
> > > any of them would do.

Geoff: Yes, but there is a subtle difference between jumping up into 
> > the air off the floor and trying to grab a letter while being assailed by 
> > Vernon and having the flexibility of being on a broom.

 Montavilla47:
> Quite honestly, jumping into the air and trying to grab one of dozens 
> of letters (although why he needs to jump I don't know) seems far 
> easier than trying to find and snatch a 2-inch ball in an area the
> size of a football field, while flying on a broom and having large
> balls hurtling toward your head.

Geoff:
But not when you've got a large, irate uncle trying to clobber you at 
the same moment. He would also then have to escape to somewhere 
in order to read the epistle in safety.
  
Montavilla47:
> > > I agree that the Pevensies are in a better position than Harry.  But Lyra
> > > isn't (unless you want to count Pan as her helper).  Sara (the Little 
> > > Princess) is quite alone in the world, but she manages to do most of 
> > > what she wants through sheer force of personality.  And Dido Twite 
> > > was foiling anti-monarchist bombing plots and sailing around the 
> > > world as an undersized ten-year-old.

Geoff: 
> > Sadly, I must reveal my literary ignorance.
> > :-)

Montavill47: 
> Well, you know who the Pevensies are, at any rate.  

Geoff:
Yes, I said so. They have been friends for many years.

Montavill47:

<snip>

> I wonder if there's something about gender differences in 
> children's books that's coming into play.  All three of those 
> aggressive characters are girls.  Is it more acceptable for a 
> heroine to be physically aggressive, sneaky, and amoral than 
> a male hero?

Geoff:
Oh definitely. That's type casting. <g,d & r>

Montavill47:
> It's true that Harry, James, and Charlie are more passive than
> Lyra, Sara, or Dido (although Dido starts out as a supporting 
> character, rather than a heroine like Lyra or Sara).  Simon (who
> also starts out as a supporting character) is more active than
> the three boys above, but his actions are directed at making
> a living, not at making trouble or sneaking around stealing
> letters.

> Or are heroines more suspicious and sneaky because, 
> being politically powerless (until the last century or so),
> female characters *had* to eavesdrop and figure things out 
> on incomplete information?

Geoff:
Pass.