HBP Chapters 27 - 30 post DH look

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 184475

 
> Alla:
> 
> Ron is not Harry's son.

Pippin:
Harry sends his  son to school with the son of Draco, who evidently
still thinks that ruthless killing is a sign of strength. 

As for Molly and Arthur, they put their children in more danger by
joining the Order than Dumbledore did by leaving Draco at large.
That's not a criticism. I think that they did the right thing. But if
they only did it to protect Harry and they would have let another
innocent child be murdered to save their son, then they're no better
than DE!Snape or Narcissa.

> Alla:
 
> And notwithstanding that I see no reason for Dumbledore making sure 
> Harry sees all of that and receives such heartbreak. Send him away 
> Dumbledore and then do what you wish IMO.

Pippin:

It's already been pointed out that Dumbledore tried to send Harry away
twice.

 Can you explain how Dumbledore could have sent Harry away once he had
lost his wand?
  

> Alla:
> 
> You asked. :-)
> 
> Well, cared about people, but had to make tough choices in my book 
> does NOT mean make those choices without people's consent and
without  giving them enough information to choose themselves whether
they  agree or not especially in the matters of life and death.

Pippin:
It's true that Dumbledore should have had the moral courage to reveal
the full plan to Harry, or at least to tell him that there were still
parts he had to keep back. I think it's important to recognize that as
a failing, and the book does so. But that has nothing to do with not
caring about people, IMO. Dumbledore was trying to protect Harry from
himself, when he should have already known that Harry had more innate
moral courage than Dumbledore himself had ever had. 

As for the situation in HBP, everyone knew that they were in danger
and that Dumbledore might no longer be able to protect them.

It was certainly no secret that there were people at Hogwarts whom
Voldemort wanted dead. Everyone could see that Dumbledore had grown
weaker.  Dumbledore told the students that they were in danger from
Voldemort, echoing what the Ministry had already said, and that
despite the efforts of the faculty to protect them, they would have to
look out for themselves. He did not hide that he was often away from
Hogwarts.    

The necklace and poison attacks were not kept secret, only the
identities of the person that Dumbledore suspected and of the intended
victim. Since Draco did not personally attack anybody (except Harry
who was spying on him) knowing that Draco was trying to kill
Dumbledore would not have made anyone safer. It would not have
prevented Katie from taking the package nor Slughorn from purchasing
the mead.

We did not know, when we first read HBP, *why* Dumbledore was sure it
was Draco. It seemed that Dumbledore had believed Harry after all, but
now we know that it was thanks to Snape's information. Without
independent and *convincing* evidence that Draco was involved in the
attacks, a move against Draco would not only compromise Draco but
Snape too. That would leave the students in far more danger than Draco
could manage with his feeble attempts at harm. Would it be caring
about people to leave Hogwarts to the Carrows?

 I do not see that Dumbledore concealed from Molly or Arthur or anyone
else that their children weren't completely safe. They had the option
of sending their children elsewhere if they didn't trust Dumbledore's
judgment on how to protect them. 


Alla:

> 
> Care about people, but making tough choices in my book means for 
> example if one just MUST place a baby in his relatives' care ( I am 
> putting aside whole Sirius' angle, for a while, does not mean that I
 agree with that), one must must must to make sure that he is checking
upon that baby's wellfare.

Pippin:
He did check. He says he watched over Harry very carefully. He did not
try to bully or bribe the Dursleys into treating Harry any better. But
canon shows us that bullying doesn't help in the long run, and that
bribes have a way of growing  until they're insupportable.

Alla:
> Care about people but making tough choices means in my book sharing 
> information with the people about what they are facing, and making 
> sure that your Tools trust each other. In fact that means in my book
 making sure that people are NOT tools for you and you just do not go
 ahead and betray the plan to Voldemort for I am still not sure which
 reason. I feel that Moody died specifically because Dumbledore made 
sure he will ( not him specifically but whatever person will fall in 
that raid).

Pippin:
If Dumbledore plans only for the  likely scenario, then he will fail
when the worst case scenario occurs. The worst case scenario is not  a
few DE's keeping an eye on Privet Drive,  as Moody thinks is likely. 

The worst case scenario is that Voldemort himself is watching Privet
Drive. He doesn't have to hang around being undetectable, although he
could. We know, thank you Albus, that Privet Drive can be observed
from afar. Voldemort himself mentions this in GoF. Voldemort may not
be able to penetrate the perimeter, but he can probably tell  when
Harry does. 

In that worst case, nothing will be given away if Voldemort learns in
advance when Harry will be leaving. Perhaps under Dumbledore's plan
some of Harry's protectors will die who could have lived if the best
case scenario happened,  but that's not under Dumbledore's control. 

 Under the worst case scenario, it's  likely that they will *all* die
-- unless some action is taken to confuse Voldemort and give
Harry a chance to escape. 
  

Alla: 
> Hmmm, oh yes, if you decide to put the ring stupidly on you and now 
> think that your death will be useful, you do not, do not, do not ask
 the man who does not want to do it ( HA, I of all people now have no
 doubt whatsoever that Snape was not playing or anything, that he 
really did not want to kill Dumbledore)
> 
> If you need to, you commit suicide.

Pippin:
He put the Ring on because he cared about people. He cared about the
family he had lost.

I suppose Dumbledore could have thrown himself off the parapet, but I
don't see how that would have shown that he cares about people.
Wouldn't they have seen it as an act of despair? 

Pippin