Snape's Psychology: WAS: More thoughts on the Elder Wand subplot - Owner?

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 187525

> Jen:
> Snape never actually makes his request in his own words, something
> I never noticed until you brought it up.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> But he does in his responce to DD, why are you saying that he does
> not? So confused I am.

Jen: Now I'm getting confused. I believe all zanooda is saying is that Snape never makes his initial request in his own words. The conversation proceeds based on Dumbledore's interpretation of what Snape intends to request.  That's the part I agree with, that Snape never makes his initial request.  Snape's later words indicate he *agrees* with Dumbledore's intepretation. 

> Alla:
> What I had been saying all along is that this scene says that Snape
> tells Dumbledore "I want Lily to live" and what he **does not say**
> is that I want James and Harry to live. Are we in agreement on 
> that? I mean in agreement that Snape does not say that.

Jen: I agree Snape doesn't say he wants Harry and James to live. Saving them is part of the conversation because Dumbledore brings it up.  

Alla:
> Because it seems to me that Zanooda is saying that we cannot be 
> sure that Snape would not have asked for **James and Harry to 
> live** had he not been initially interrupted by Dumbledore. <snip>

> Am I making sense Jen? I thought Zanooda is disputing a fact that 
> Snape is not asking Dumbledore to save them, am I confused?

Jen: I think zanooda was saying that hypothetically speaking, Snape could have asked Dumbledore to save all three Potters had he been given the chance to voice his request - we'll never know.  I understood it as a technical point about the writing.  

I don't believe Snape was going to ask DD to save all three Potters.  I don't think zanooda was arguing for that interpretation either (correct me if I'm wrong, zanooda!). The point is we'll never know how Snape was planning to word his request to DD.  Too bad. 

Carol:
> But I wouldn't call LV's agreeing to spare Lily "altruistic." 
> Generous, maybe, for Voldemort--he's "giving" Lily to Snape as a 
> reward to the young DE for providing him with what appears to be 
> extremely valuable information, and LV and the DEs (even quasi-DE 
> Snape) are always mouthing that phrase about rewarding some loyal
> DE "above all others." He's probably relieved that Snape asks so
> little. Why not let the "Mud-Blood" girl live if Snape wants her?
> It's her son that he wants dead.

Jen: Maybe 'altruistic' isn't the best word. I didn't elaborate but the main point is Voldemort tends to give his followers rewards that serve him in some way, i.e., Draco's task, letting Lucius & Bella guard his Horcruxes or giving Peter the silver hand.  There's no benefit to saving Lily.  LV wouldn't agree to save her to strengthen Snape's loyalty because if LV doubted Snape's loyalty, he wouldn't give him anything at all or he would give him the equivalent of a silver hand.

Another minor point about Voldemort: I doubt he felt relief Snape asked for so little.  That isn't part of his psychological make-up. If a follower dares ask for something, he or she should be grateful to be alive after the asking.  

zanooda:
> I suppose Snape told LV he wanted his school enemy's wife for 
> himself, to Imperio her and make her his love slave. LV would 
> probably like the idea of something as perverse as that... . Or 
> maybe back then he wasn't as crazy as he was in the last books and 
> he wanted to maintain the devotion of his followers by giving them 
> rewards and small favors...

Jen: LOL, to the first idea.  Possibly he was less crazy before leaving his body and getting rebirthed.  

The bottom line is the story wouldn't work if Snape didn't ask, Voldemort didn't agree, and Lily didn't have the choice to step aside.  Voldemort's characterization took a back seat to the plot in this instance imo.