What triggered ancient magic? WAS: Re: James and Intent

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 187012


> Montavilla47:
> 
> Okay... I'm not exactly going to disagree because to my mind the
> important distinction was that Lily had a *choice* in the matter.
> 
> But how many people willingly died to keep Voldemort from
> hurting other people?  Do those deaths not matter because
> the people who died weren't relying on love to save others, but 
> on their wands to do it?

Pippin:
The deaths mattered, in the sense that those people did brave and worthy things. But they didn't invoke the power of love magic. If Lily had faced Voldemort with her wand, she'd have had only the power of her wand to help her. And it wouldn't have been enough.

Montavilla:
> Instead, all they had to do was believe in love?   If the first
> person Voldemort killed had simply believed that allowing
> him or herself to be killed without resisting would protect
> everyone else in the world, would we never have gotten the
> first war at all?

Pippin:
Maybe, if they thought they could escape and yet *chose* to face Voldemort and die, thereby placing protection on those whom they loved,  that would have invoked love magic. But to protect everyone, they would have had to have been willing to die for everyone.  I don't think it's "scientific" -- choice + love magic + love = protection. I think a lot depends on the courage and moral certainty of the person who invokes the power.

Montavilla:
Because, how dumb would he have to be to  believe for a second that Voldemort would let in her live in  those circumstances?

Pippin:
Voldemort had been trying to recruit Lily and James, so Snape would have thought she was safe until he found out that Voldemort thought Harry was the prophecy child. And as we see, Voldemort wasn't hard over on killing Lily. But Snape was probably aware that Voldemort was capricious and would not hesitate to kill or break his promises on a whim.

Montavilla:
> He isn't trusting that his death is going to protect others.
> He isn't trusting, as you say Lily did, in love alone.
>

Pippin:

But he is! We just don't find out about it until he tells Voldemort what he did. I don't think it's about Voldemort breaking his promises, though that's an interesting idea. 

Pippin