Snape and Lucius was James and Intent And Snape

Carol justcarol67 at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 16 17:08:02 UTC 2009


No: HPFGUIDX 187081

Magpie:
> I think it's implied, especially when Voldemort suggests that he arranged it. But no, we have no proof. Though I didn't take Draco hanging around watching to suggest his parents would have nothing to do with it. 

Carol responds:
As someone else has pointed out, Voldemort identifies Lucius as the organizer of the Muggle-baiting "fun" at the TWT. As Lucius doesn't deny it, I think we can safely presume that he really was in charge and certainly that he participated. (Since Narcissa wasn't with Draco, she probably did, too, but there we can only speculate.)

> Magpie:
> This one was written pretty clearly imo. Lucius did want to identify them because they would have possibly gotten him out of trouble with Voldemort. But he doesn't want to make a mistake since Harry's disfigured from the curse and he doesn't know Ron and Hermione by sight as well as Draco does. Narcissa brings them in saying Draco can identify them and Lucius agrees. Harry looks at his face when he's pushing Draco to do it and he looks eager where Draco is scared and reluctant. It's too important to not leave it up to the person who knows best, and that's Draco, who he encourages when he's reluctant. I thought the scene made a point of showing that Draco's reluctant but Lucius isn't.

Carol:
I agree. Harry sees the physical similarity in their faces, which makes the contrasting expressions all the stronger. Lucius is eager to touch his Dark Mark and bring Voldemort. The only thing that stops him at that point is Bellatrix, who sees the Sword of Gryffindor and fears Voldemort's wrath if HRH have been in her vault.
 
>
> Magpie:
> He seems to understand that it [the diary] opens the Chamber of Secrets and releases the basilisk. I thought he wanted to frame Arthur Weasley's kid for it.

Carol responds:
Not only that, based on what Dobby overhears, he's expecting or hoping that Muggle-borns will be hurt or killed. (Why Dobby thinks that will harm Harry is unclear.) He's also disposing of a dangerous Dark object (we see him earlier selling poisons and other unidentified Dark stuff to Borgin), and I think we can assume that he hopes to disgrace Dumbledore (the old Muggle lover, as Draco calls him) as well as the Weasley family. 

As for why Arthur Weasley dislikes Lucius, it's true that the data on the ages of the Weasleys is conflicting (more JKRish inconsistencies), but if the Weasleys left school and got married just as Voldemort was returning (ca. 1970), they'd have been just a little older than Lucius, who would have been about sixteen at that time. They would have known him or known of him, and even if he didn't advertise his ambition to be a DE at that early point, they would have known about his prejudice against "Mudbloods" and Muggles, just as he would have known that the Weasleys, especially the Muggle-loving Arthur, were "blood traitors." I suspect it's an old antagonism similar to that between Draco and Ron, who would have disliked each other even if Harry had not been involved.

We have only to see them in Flourish and Blotts in CoS to see the conflict between their values.

As for why Lucius didn't go looking for Voldemort after Godric's Hollow (point that Kate raised in her post), I think that Snape is right in saying that Lucius believed him to be dead. Only the insanely devoted Bellatrix and her little clique refused to believe that he hadn't been killed.

Carol, granting that Lucius is not a mad fanatic like Bellatrix and that he has a strong sense of self-preservation but pretty sure that he was a loyal DE even after Voldemort abused his hospitality





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