DD's plan -- Prophesy Manipulation?

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 189171



> > Mike, previously:
> > 
> > Well, certainly Sibyll's prophesies that can be self-fulfilled
> > came true, even if the people involved didn't realize that's
> > what they were doing. I'm speaking of Harry fulfilling Sibyll's
> > 2nd one about Peter escaping.

> Nikkalmati
> 
> I am not sure how Peter's escape was self-fulfilling. Peter didn't
> know about it.  Neither did Lupin.  It was an "accident."

Mike:
I think I was too limiting by saying "self-fulfilling". Maybe I should have called it participant-fulfilling or self-fulfilling-type. What I was thinking - or rather what I think DD's approach to the prophesies was - that these prophesies required someone that hears it to act on it, even if they don't think they are acting on it or realize they are acting on it.

Snape heard Sibyll's first and acted on it in two ways: telling LV and subsequently asking LV to spare Lily. DD heard it and used it to manipulate both Snape and later Harry. Harry heard it and eventually chose to fulfill the final clause, twice actually. :)

Harry was the only one to hear Sibyll's second, and he acted on it without realizing he was. If he and Hermione hadn't gone after Ron and Sirius to the Shrieking Shack, Peter would have been killed by Sirius and never would have escaped, probably!?! Participant-fulfilled? I dunno, it's just a theory. And it's sounding kind of thin right now.


> Nikkalmati
> 
> BTW we don't know all the prophecies in the DOM were unfulfilled.
> Perhaps they were mostly fulfilled and kept for research purposes.

Mike:
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that all of them were unfulfilled. DD did tell us that at least some of them were unfulfilled, that's what I was thinking of. I was surmising, from DD's point of view, that the  unfulfilled were the ones nobody acted upon.


> Nikkalmati
> 
> I do see your point that if LV was going to fulfill his side of 
> the Prophecy, Harry had little choice but to respond in some way.
> DD knew Harry wouldn't run or hide, so from there, DD just had to
> make Harry trust him and guide him.

Mike:
Precisely.

I know we aren't revealing anything earth-shattering here. The real question, in my mind, is why did DD reveal the prophesy to Harry if he didn't believe in them? Was it simply to explain why LV was after Harry? Or was it a part of a more complicated plan?

I think DD understood that LV had to resume corporeal form if he was ever going to be vanquished permanently. DD also knew that LV would eventually find a way to do just that. I think he wanted to control that in some way, how I do not know. 

But that's why he brought the Philosopher's Stone to Hogwarts. I think all of those tests were designed to keep the students out, not LV (or rather the Quirrel/LV hybrid). I think Harry's surmising that DD wanted to give Harry his shot at LV was a bunch of hogwash. He had other plans for Harry and he was trying to do something with a resurrected LV. Harry messed that up and almost got himself killed in the process. What was DD supposed to say to Harry after all that? "Good job, old boy, you mucked up everything." No, he can't deflate Harry, so he uses the incident to implant a *you're special* message to Harry.

Harry is incredulous that DD isn't more concerned about the second prophesy coming true, LV coming back more powerful than before. But again, DD needs LV in corporeal form. Harry doesn't know that, but we do now. He makes light of the second one because he didn't even know about it and still it's going to work to his advantage.

So, does DD believe in prophesies? I think he uses them to his advantage when he can. Like you said in your earlier post, the majority of the WW believes in prophesies and DD understands that, too. That's why he told Harry of The Prophesy, to use it to manipulate Harry. 

He obliquely lets Harry in on his belief - in HBP - when it no longer matters whether Harry believes in prophesies or not. Both because he's sure Harry believes in this one and because LV has taken that decision out of Harry's hands. LV wants Harry dead by his own hand, that is abundantly clear. Harry's only choice is to let LV kill him or to kill LV himself. Curiously, Harry does both, and they both work! 

JMHO
Mike, who now has a new respect for the Hittites! :)