Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188872


Montavilla47:

At the time, Harry didn't know that Snape was involved in
his parents' deaths, so I don't think that could have been
part of his suffering. But I thought I covered this incident
under "snide remarks," because that's all it really amounts
to. And, like Aunt Marge's snide remark about James, it's
something that only causes suffering if you allow it to.

Harry has plenty of people who would love to praise James
to him. If he suffers that much from hearing one or two
bad things about his father, he just has to go have tea
with Hagrid in order to sooth his tormented soul.

Alla:

I think you are downplaying the power of words, the hurtful words, the hateful words. I always thought that "words can kill" is not just a metaphor. 
It was up to Harry to not let hurtful "snide remarks" to get to him?  If Harry would not have let those remarks get to him, does that make Snape shooting his mouth off any better?  The fact that the recipient of the verbal abuse (I hope I stated enough in the past that qualifying Snape's actions as abuse is my opinion, so I am not going to put it up every time) can "tough it up" (or whatever expression is the right one) and show a chin up face to the world to me does not make the actions of the abuser better in the slightest. Yes, Harry did not know that Snape played a part in his parents' deaths, very true.  This is just an added extra layer of disgust for me as a reader when I reread it after DH. But at the time Harry knows perfectly well that his parents are dead and he misses them like crazy and wants them with him and he is just thirteen and here is Snape, who is his teacher and who badmouths his father at him. Yes, to me sounds like plenty to be upset about. 

As an aside I just realized something, I know I stated it in the past that Snape's character types are usually my favorite characters and it bothered me that I could not feel same way about Snape. I also stated in the past that I figured out that all the characters I love could have been as sarcastic and rude as they wanted to, only they did it to their equals and I loved every second of it. Anyway, I just realized that Snape does not even do that.  Let me explain, I always thought that while Snape abuses children verbally, he is equally rude to the adults and I just had an epiphany. No, he is not IMO. I mean, he IS to some adults, but only to those beneath them.  He is rude to Gilderoy, but everybody despises Gilderoy and deservingly so.  He is rude to Sirius but Sirius' position is certainly beneath him in OOP IMO. He is not CHEERFUL with everybody but he is never rude to Minerva, he is never rude to Dumbledore, in other words he is never ever rude to higher ups. So he does not even have the devil may care attitude, he does not want to run his mouth at those who have more power than he did, only to those who are beneath him.

I mean even in HBP when he argues with Dumbledore and more than once does he ever say something demeaning to Dumbledore?

And is he ever rude to Fudge?  Anybody please feel free to correct me of course.


Montavilla47:
Didn't Harry express a desire just before then to do just
that in the hopes that people would think he'd done something
heroic--rather than be beaten up by Draco?

I admit it's a really jerk move by Snape, but it's hardly the
worst thing that's happened to Harry that day--or that
hour, come to think of it.

And, as I recall, the only people who even notice Harry are
Ron and Hermione.

Alla:
Yes and what happened to Harry at the hands of Umbridge was much worse physically than what Snape ever did to him (I still think that emotionally they are not too far from each other).  How is this relevant in evaluating Snape's actions on its own? I do not care about who noticed Harry, I do not care that much worse happened to him that day, I honestly and truly do not think that this is relevant in the slightest to what Snape intended to do to him. And to me he intended to humiliate him and badly.



Alla:
>
> Does he though? I thought Draco said enough rude things to Hagrid in order for
Hagrid to view him as Draco and react the way he does.
>
Montavilla47:
Well, Draco is very rude to Hagrid. You may be right
about that. But I get the feeling that Hagrid's dislike of
Draco is based on more than the kid being rude.


Alla:

That's not  quite my feeling, no. I mean I know we have that quote from Hagrid about Malfoys' bad blood, but by that time he already observed Draco in action in school for a year, I think he has plenty of reasons to dislike Draco for who he is, Lucius notwithstanding. Although I suppose I would put it in 95/5 percentage – 95 being for Draco being who he is. This is Draco who despises Hagrid without **ever seeing him** already, so if he comes to school and talks nearly as bad as he talks to Harry in the shop, I would say Hagrid has every reason to despise Draco for being Draco Malfoy.

However, however having said that  I certainly cannot get in Hagrid's head and if he despises Draco for being Lucius's son first and foremost, then I absolutely think he is being just as wrong as Snape for despising Harry for being James' son.