Dumbledore as shameless manipulator redux LONG

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 188982


> Alla:
 Teenager, who witnessed the death of the classmate needs support of the loved ones, period. Apparently Dumbledore did not think so. 

Pippin:
Dumbledore moves Harry to the safest place he know, as if he feared an imminent attack. Was that a realistic fear? 
 
Well, Harry didn't know it yet, and neither did we, but Voldemort already had hordes of Inferi  at his command. 

LV didn't *need* to recruit the Giants, or liberate his faithful from Azkaban, or  find out what the rest of the prophecy said. We know that Hogwarts' defenses would fall in a matter of hours, and that's the safest place in the world -- except for No 4 Privet Drive. I'll take the Dursleys over the zombie hordes, thank you very much. 

> Alla:
> 
> Um, he did save Harry just on time, didn't he? Birdie told him to be back surprisingly on time, at the very last minute, but on time nevertheless. And Harry is a bit hurt? Well, now he knows what Voldemort is capable of.

Pippin:
You can't have it both ways, Alla. Either Dumbledore knew everything that was going on and always could have rescued  the kids if they were in real trouble (that's what PS/SS Harry wants to believe), or Harry outwitted his protections (which even clever Snape did not figure out how to do) and went after the Stone long before Dumbledore intended. That is what Dumbledore claims in OOP and Harry never doubts.

> Alla:
 He says that help would always be given in Hogwarts to those who ask for it, why not leave it at that, why stress personal loyalty?

Pippin:
Because Harry might need Fawkes's help again sometime when he is not at Hogwarts?
 
> Alla: What I think he should have done if you ask me is to go all the way – give evidence to the Ministry, make sure he explained that he Legilimenced Sirius and all that. No, I do not think Ministry would have put up that much of a fight, it felt to me that they agreed with Sirius' innocence really really fast after he was dead.

Pippin:
They agreed awfully fast once they were ready to admit that Voldemort was back. But they put up an awful fight about that. Meanwhile --proclaiming Sirius's innocence was just more evidence that Harry was delusional.

Alla:
> So my main point is that this is one in the long list of actions that Dumbledore presents to Harry as something Harry needs to respect him for.

Pippin:
See, that is one of the things that I don't find mentioned in canon. When does Dumbledore demand Harry's respect  for recognizing that Sirius was innocent? IIRC, he says it is Harry who has saved an innocent man from a terrible fate, and Harry's patronus that convinced him Sirius was telling the truth. 
 
> Alla:
> I think you are mixing up issues here. Saving souls is a very worthy thing as far as I am concerned; free will as far as I am concerned is also a very worthy thing. And I cannot respect a leader who takes the free will away from his subjects, no matter how worthy such goal is. 

Pippin:
Whoa! Harry at King's Cross is a pure, undamaged soul, one and the same with his mind. How can he not have free will? Even Voldemort's soul, or what's left of it, has free will. He is as he as chosen to be, and no one has the power to save him from himself any more.

He has chosen independence, and look what it got him. 


> Alla:
> 
> When I reread it, it looked to me even less independent than what I remembered. Nowhere, not ONCE Harry says that he wants to go back. Sure, I believe that he could have wanted to do that, but he does not say that, does he?  He is asking **Dumbledore** again, what he wants him to do. 

Pippin:
Harry wouldn't be asking at all if he weren't conflicted. It is like Catlady said, "want" is a difficult word. Catlady wants to stay in her warm comfy bed, but good Catlady gets up and feeds her cats, because, among other things, staying in her bed indefinitely is  not a viable option anyway. Harry wants to stay where it is warm and light and peaceful -- but that's not really an option either. The train is going to come and then it's off to the next great adventure, whatever that might be.

Pippin