Dumbledore as shameless manipulator redux LONG

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 188987


> Alla:
> 
> Huh? As you know I have plenty of issues with Harry living with Dursleys, but this was not my point at all here. Dumbledore does not ALLOW Harry's friends to contact him in the meaningful way over the summer and no, I do not think visit or letter from Ron and Hermione telling Harry what is really going on would have provoked an attack from Voldemort, sorry I find it funny as in extremely implausible way. I will take visits and meaningful letters from his friends over his nightmares and depression, thank you very much. 

Pippin:
Sorry I misunderstood you. I was  explaining why Dumbledore might think Harry couldn't be taken to his friends at Grimmauld Place until it was fully secure. 

The nightmares and depression do not end when Harry has contact with his friends. He's not depressed because he can't see them. He is  angry because his friends won't tell him what Voldemort is doing. He's desperate to help the Order, but he doesn't care that it's not a good idea to put information that Voldemort wants kept secret in an owl post than anyone might read. Not very healthy for the spies who have gathered it -- or the owl for that matter. 
 

> Alla:
. But instead of say something like, I cannot make this decision for you Harry, it should be your choice and your choice only, Dumbledore is exerting his influence all over again here and I am so disgusted that even in other world he won't let Harry rest in peace.

Pippin:

"I've got to go back, haven't I?"
"That is up to you."
"I've got a choice?"
"Oh yes"
 

It is  Harry's choice to ask Dumbledore whether he wants Harry to go back.  Dumbledore does not answer the question. He only says that if Harry goes back, he thinks there is a chance that Harry can finish Voldemort for good, save more souls from being maimed and more families from being torn apart. That is not going to be persuasive unless those are things that Harry  thinks are worthy. 

I just do not see any hint here that Harry only thinks they are important so Dumbledore will approve of him. 

Alla:
 I will always like Harry's character for great qualities I think he has, but I now also realize that he is probably one of the most dependent Chosen ones I have ever read about. It does not diminish his bravery and sacrifice in my mind, but it does diminish his free will a great deal. Every Chosen one, you name it at the end makes a decision which makes him a better stronger man than his mentor was. Here Harry still makes a decision which Dumbledore's hand at least partially forced him to do IMO

Pippin:

 I do not think JKR sees anything wrong with Harry needing wisdom, experience and knowledge from others. The alternative would be for Harry to think he always knows best. That's dangerously macho -- a usual Gryffindor fault, one of Dumbledore's worst,  and I for one am glad to see Harry get over it.  

 To me she is saying that  if we were not willing to be dependent at all, we would end up like the Voldemort soul, who had so little use for other people that he completely destroyed his ability to connect with them. 

Pippin