Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 19: The Servant of Lord Voldemort

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 190701


> Alla:
> 
> Of course it is only speculation  based on his plea to Voldemort, I agree that there are no canon facts to support it. But I do not agree that he always treated her with respect, up till he called her that horrible word I would agree that he did, but that to me showed that he may have loved her but thought of her as 'lower species" so to speak than himself. Even when they met and she asked him to explain about muggleborns, I thought that was already a sign of problems to come.

Pippin:
Have you forgotten that Snape is a potions genius? If what he wanted was the physical experience of Lily in bed, all he needed was a few strands of her hair, some polyjuice potion, and a partner. In fact, considering his acting ability,   with a bit of nerve, a few strands of *James*'s hair, and maybe a dose of felix for luck along with the pjp, he could enjoy Lily herself. Students of British legend will remember that King Arthur himself was conceived by a similar ruse.

But that's not what Snape wanted, IMO. What he wanted was for Lily to prefer him to James. I'm not denying that he had sexual feelings for her. But canon does not show us his feelings as  degraded. I do not think you will find much support for the idea that the silver doe is the creation of a man who fancied himself a rapist. 

Canon does show us that sexual love can unseat the moral compass. But it also shows us that other kinds of love have the same power. 

I think when Snape first asked for Lily's life, Voldemort did not bother himself too much about why he wanted it. From JKR's comments, Snape seems to have thought he could turn her. That would be a win-win for Voldemort. If Snape succeeded, well and good. And if not, why, Lily herself would punish Snape for his insolence in thinking he could succeed where his master had so far failed. 

 Snape, on his return, had to be prepared with a reason that he was still willing to serve. I think it was at that time that Snape led his master to think his feelings for Lily were purely carnal, and there were other women more worthy of him. 

I don't believe Snape ever thought of Lily as being a lower species.  I think young Snape truly believed  his  feelings about her were separate from his feelings about Muggleborns in general. That, maybe, is a danger of being able to compartmentalize one's feelings as an occlumens is able to do. 

Keep in mind that when he used the M word to Lily he was sixteen years old, exhausted (from the exam) and being subjected to emotional and physical assault. I would not like to be held responsible for anything I said under such circumstances, would you?  It would be all too easy for Snape to believe, despite his slip, that it was still possible to have one set of feelings about Lily and another about her race. 

Of course he couldn't do it. Lily was right about that. But Snape didn't understand that  until much later. We know he finally did understand it  because he stops Phineas Nigellus from using the M word about Hermione, whom Snape does not care for personally one bit. 

I think, though Snape obviously accepted and honored Lily's decision to die for Harry,  he  thought it would have done Lily no harm if Harry and James had died instead. He was unable to see James as anything but a conceited bully, and how could James's son be anything but the same? After all, even Harry wonders how the James he saw in the Pensieve could possibly have won Lily's love and wonders if she was forced into marrying him. Far from thinking he would put Lily under the Imperius curse, Snape was probably persuading himself that  James had done it. 

Pippin