Was the MoM built around the Arch? , The Kiss v Death

[Ali]

I had written:-
   
> > Following OoP, I have felt that the MoM was constructed 
 around the Chamber of Death. IMO, the arch and the veil predate the 
MoM. I think that they are a link between our world and the next,  
perhaps a place where it is easier to pass on quickly, I don't know. 
 
Catlady replied:-

>>> How many such doorways for one planet Earth? >>

Sorry, I'm not quite with you. Why would it be relevant how many 
doorways there are? The idea of there being a gateway between this 
life and the next is common in mythology. Orpheus, Aeaneas and 
Gilgamesh all visit the underworld, via portals. I am suggesting 
that the arch is some kind of portal. We've already been introduced 
to Cerebrus in the guise of Fluffy, the three headed dog who guards 
the entrance of Hades, so why not go one stage further and have an 
entrance to the Underworld itself? I am suggesting that this is a 
place where it is easy to make the cross over, implying that you can 
reach the Underworld by other means. But, I do not have any 
suggestions about what these might be.

I wrote:-
 
> > I note that they do have something which is arguably worse than 
 death - as Lupin says "Much worse than that" p. 183 PoA UK edition.
 They have the "Kiss".
 
 I wonder if this is what Dumbledore is thinking about in his duel 
 against Voldemort in the MoM, when he tells Voldemort that death 
 wouldn't be sufficient for him? <<<

Catlady again:- 

 <<<I kind of thought that what Dumbledore had in mind as what fate 
of Voldemort would satisfy him is: Voldemort realising how wrong he'd
 been, which would make him feel utterly humiliated.>>>

So, when the thing that Voldemort most hates in the whole world is 
death, Dumbledore really believes that abject humiliation is worse, 
or do you mean that Dumbledore would humiliate Voldemort before 
killing him? That is certainly not how I read that passage. 
Dumbeldore says: "We both know that there are other ways of 
destroying a man, Tom... merely taking your life would not satisfy 
me, I admit" OoP p. 718 UK edition.

Dumbledore has watched as friend after friend has died at the hands 
of Voldemort. He himself says that death would be insufficient. I 
cannot see how humiliation alone would be worse than death to 
Dumbledore however much he does believe in an afterlife. Voldemort 
seems only able to feel pain by goodness touching him. I cannot see 
at this moment in time how humiliation would provoke the pain. 
Voldemort can dish out humiliation to others, it is something that 
he understands. Dumbledore's desired end for him must I think be on 
a different scale again. IMHO, Soul removal would seem to fit the 
bill.

We already have JKR suggesting through Lupin that there is something 
worse than death - loss of one's soul. We have already seen how the 
hero has had to fight against soul removal in both PoA and OoP. The 
Dementors seemed to be very keen on Harry, more so than on other 
people. Now, arguably, this was because he had such bad memories 
which they could feed on. But, I think this argument is a bit weak 
when considering the Quidditch scene where Harry fainted. Harry 
would have been full of exhiliaration when hordes of dementors 
decided to go for him. No, there is something extra special about 
Harry that makes him a particular appealing target for the Dementors.

Dumbledore himself tells Voldemort that [his] "failure to understand 
that there are things much worse than death has always been [his] 
greatest weakness" p 718 OoP UK edition. 

I don't then think it is unreasonable to conclude that as losing 
one's soul has been identified in the Potterverse as worse than 
death, that this shouldn't be what Dumbledore has in mind for 
Voldemort. There are obviously many differences between Harry and 
Voldemort, and many similarities. But, a fundamental difference *is* 
that in wanting to die so that he'll see Sirius again, Harry is 
recognising life after death. This, is something that Voldemort 
seems unable to comprehend. Indeed, his goal is "to conquer death" 
GoF p.566. In wanting immortality, Voldemort is striving never to 
take the "next great adventure".

Ali