Ethics, Schmethics

[eloise_herisson]

Mike:

> > So, I think there's lots of nice, Christiany-ethicy stuff in HBP.
> All well and dandy. But honestly, folks:
> > 
> > Is it right to get people (and basically innocent people at that!)
> drunk so they'll divulge information they wouldn't other divulge?
> > 
> > If so, is it also right to force turth serum on them? (Which
> Dumbledore admits to doing to Horace.)
> > 
> 
> Pippin
> Hold on! In the first place Harry doesn't "get" Slughorn drunk. That
> was entirely Slughorn's choice. It's not like Harry spiked his punch
> or put him under Imperius, or like Slughorn is unfamiliar with the
> effects of alcohol.  

Eloise:

No. but Slughorn was acting under the influence of the Felix Felicis 
that Harry had taken.

Moreover,

"The Felix Felicis gave Harry a little nudge at this point and he 
noticed the supply of drink that Slughorn had brought was running out 
fast. Harry had not yet managed to bring off the Refilling Charm 
without saying the incantation aloud, but the idea that he might not 
be able to do it tonight was laughable: indeed, Harry grinned to 
himself as, unnoticed by either Hagrid or Slughorn (now swapping 
tales of the illegal trade in dragon eggs), he pointed his wand under 
the table at the emptying bottles and they immediately began to 
refill."

That implies some intent on Harry's side to me. ;-)

What *real* choice did Slughorn have, I wonder, when Harry had the 
Felix Felicis on his side. Even if he did have choice, I would argue 
that there are some ethical niceties about the rights and wrongs of 
exploiting others' weaknesses.

One of the things that struck me about this book was that throughout, 
the consumption of alcohol was a much more obvious theme than in 
previous volumes (and even in these I have seen its use questioned). 
Now just to make myself plain, I'm not TT or anything, anything but, 
it's just something I noticed and which was highlighted in particular 
by the session in which Harry encourages Slughorn to get drunk in 
order to extract that memory.

Polishing up my tarnished LOON credentials, I decided to skim the 
book and see if my perceptions were correct. This is what I found. 
I've included everything I could find, even the trivial.

Ch1 Fudge pours two large glasses of the PM's whisky.

Ch2 Snape automatically provides Cissy and Bella with wine.

Ch3 Dumbledore, complaining of the Durseley's lack of hospitality, 
provides the assembled company with some of Madam Rosmerta's finest 
oak-matured mead.

Ch12 The trio indulge in Butterbeer in the Three Broomsticks (I think 
this is the only ref to butterbeer in this book - the rest of the 
refs are to "real" alcohol).

Ch13 (Pensieve memory) Dumbledore drinks gin with Mrs Cole at the 
orphanage.  She drinks *a lot* . Harry is "impressed" that she's 
steady after 2/3 of the bottle is gone. This scene is, I think, a 
reference back to Victorian and earlier images of gin-soaked child-
carers (think Dickens/Hogarth).

Ch15 Romilda's liqueur chocolates. (OK, the fire whisky is presumably 
to disguise the taste of the love potion).

Ch17 Not for the first time, the Fat Lady's been on the bottle with 
Violet, apparently binge-drinking over Christmas.

Ch17 (Pensieve)  Morfin's taken to drink.

Ch17 (Pensieve)  Slughorn is drinking a small glass of wine (and 
eating crystalised pineapple - can't *imagine* what wine you'd pair 
with that!) whilst entertaining the Slug Club.

Ch18  Ron poisoned when he drinks some of the mead offered by 
Slughorn as a "pick-me-up".

Ch20  Dumbledore gives Tom wine when he visits ostensibly in search 
of a post.

Ch22  Harry facilitates Slughorn getting drunk to extract the memory.

Ch23  (Pensieve)  As Ch17.

Ch25  Sybil's sherry problem.

Ch25  Dumbledore apparently routinely uses going for a drink as cover.


Conclusions?

Well, Dumbledore clearly likes a drop and he seems routinely to oil 
his meetings with other adults with a drink. He also must regularly 
drop into the local hostelries for a drink of an evening if his cover 
is to be convincing.

What I found surprising was that Slughorn's little parties (in the 
present action) didn't seem to involve drinking at all. I was quite 
surprised that his luncheon on the train was apparently unaccompanied 
by a nice bottle to wash down the pheasant.

What we do have, however is a continuation of an earlier theme of 
characters with alcohol problems. Sybil's drinking problem is even 
more overt. Morfin is presumably being portrayed as an alcoholic, as 
is Mrs Cole. In the past, we've had hints at least that Hagrid drinks 
too much, even for his size, especially in times of stress and the 
Fat Lady routinely gets smashed at Christmas (OK. Perhaps it's 
because she's not used to it).

To be honest, I'm not sure what I make of it. I'd have no problem 
whatsoever sitting down for a glass with Dumbledore, or going down 
the three Broomsticks for a jar, but there *is* a bit of me that's 
uncomfortable with the way some of it's written, which is partly 
because I come (as does JKR) from a culture which has a growing 
problem with young drinkers and in particular with young people binge-
 drinking. I suppose that in fact we are seeing the dangers of 
alcohol portrayed, but apart from the pathetic Morfin, excess 
drinking is here portrayed as amusing (Sybil, Fat Lady), impressive 
(Mrs Cole) or as a way of exploiting someone else to get what you 
need.

In a book aimed at a young readership, I do wonder about the 
judgement of some of this.

~Eloise