Dragons, Produced and Tickled, and Other Pleasantries

[Barry Arrowsmith]

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "susiequsie23" <susiequsie23 at s...> wrote:
> 
> I agree with this, and welcome someone else making the remark besides moi.  I'm a 
DDM!Snaper myself, and every time I present the possibility that Snape could be DDM! *by 
virtue of loyalty or attachment to DD,* as opposed to by virtue of a wholehearted belief in 
DD's ideals, I seem to be greeted with a great deal of incredulity from the OFH!Snapers.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that OFH!Snape is impossible, nor that ESE!Snape is impossible -- 
not at all.  But for now my read of HBP (and of canon) simply leaves me with a comfortable 
belief in the real possibility of DDM!Snape.  I doubt very much whether Severus Snape buys 
into Love-with-a-capital-L or into forgiveness and second chances, at least nowhere to 
the degree that DD does.  Still, he has been the beneficiary of those ideals, and some 
appreciation for them might have sunk in a tiny bit.  And even if they didn't sink in much... 
even if he doesn't give a rat's ass about the "ideals" of The Order... I still feel that it's 
possible that Snape has remained & will remain loyal to Dumbledore The Man.  I don't find 
it so hard to believe.  
>


Sure. I'm surprised that others find it less than convincing.
Snape has never shown any particular inclination towards abstract ideology 
so far as I can see, but he does react strongly to individuals, their powers,
faults and the influences they may have. Someone else has said that the 
books are all about individuals and I couldn't agree more. All this guff about
good and evil is just a socially acceptable cloak for personal motivations.
After all, who is good and who is bad? Wasn't that one of the points raised
in my last post?

Voldy he fears, he knows what Voldy can and will do to him, Snape, if ever he
gets him in his clutches. This has more immediacy than any discussion of
the rights of wizards and the need to oppose him on general principles.
Snape reacts to Voldy as to an individual, not as to a socio-political force. 
And the reverse is true too, of course.

Similarly, Sevvy reacted to DD as an individual who affected Snape on
a personal level, not as the leader of the underground opposition. It's
a fair bet that DD helped, even saved Snape *in spite of what he'd done*
in the past rather than because of what he could do in the future. An 
understanding between individuals rather than an alliance between 
like-minded opponents of Voldy. Snape respects DD - and I doubt
he gives his respect lightly.

Harry he doesn't respect at all, nor does he like him - but that's of
no consequence. It might upset Harry that there's someone around who
is totally unimpressed by his almost mythic aura, but Sevvy is probably
only interested in Harry to the extent of DD's plan - and yes, I think he's
a good idea of what it's all about, probably the only one besides DD that
does. 

 
> 
> Snape might well want Voldy killed off for his own *very* personal reasons (something I 
believe you ascribe to, Kneasy, though I'm guessing you'd place yourself most closely by 
the OFH!Snapers?), but that doesn't mean that he might can't be DDM! and not OFH!
> 

Oh, yes.
For me this is the main argument against OFH!Snape.
Snape wants only one thing, Voldy's teeth chattering in the dust as his
decapitated cadaver bleeds out into a ditch. Then Snape'll jump up and
down on it - lots and lotsa times. Snape reeks of a man seeking revenge,
he has no other ambitions, no other motives - not now that Sirius is dead.
And to secure that revenge he'll play any part that may be necessary.
Some may see this as an OFH type motivation. Not really. Snape doesn't
expect to profit in any way; indeed he'd probably sacrifice his own life
if it ensured Voldy's demise  - and it probably will turn out that way.
Betcha. 


> 
> SSSusan:
> Heh heh.  I suggest putting this out on TOL and seeing what happens.  Talk about 
people Taking Things Seriously.  I'm sick to death of the discussions of who's a child 
abuser and who's not, what constitutes abuse, how culpable was DD in Harry's abuse, and 
all of that.  I prefer the straightforward statement that "he's a pragmatist... it didn't stop 
him from forging Weapon!Harry" and the final statement of yours I quoted.  It's the truth, 
and it's the way it is, and I wish there'd stop being so much *judgment* of it Over There.
> 

Feel free to transfer any bits you wish - I'll not post over there as a matter
of principle, but I've no objection to being quoted. And with luck it could 
upset one or two of the more precious variety of poster.


In another post pippin asks how I'd defend Snape, why I like him, or something
of that order.

That's easy.
Assuming that I've read his motivations correctly, then I'd quite probably
wish to behave in exactly the same way under similar circumstances. 
I approve of what I think he's doing. So what's not to like?

Kneasy