[the_old_crowd] Re: X-post: *When* did Dumbledore die?

[silmariel]

Jen Reese:
> There was a *lot* of blood in HBP: Slughorn's faked death scene, the
> glasses of bloodred wine, Sectumsempra cuts, all the talk in the
> cave of the value of blood and Voldemort's blood payment, and then
> the scenes with the DE's at Hogwarts--blood everywhere! Harry slips
> on blood and follows blood trails through the castle and bleeds
> himself to mention a few things.

Not opposing the simbolism, and blood being used to raise the stakes, so much 
blood details also means we wouldn't take notice of DD's blood as something 
to consider.

I considered the anticoagulant venom, but... the only reference in canon that 
I can compare is Katie bleeding in the trainings, and still I don't get the 
point (authorial intention, I mean) of making the venom in the cave 
anticoagulating. The scene of the tower is pretty fishy as it already is.

Pippin:
>The odd angle of his arms and legs, even broken bones,
>could have been caused by convulsions. Dumbledore
>died of the poison, IMO, some ten or twenty minutes 
>after he'd fallen from the tower. He may have been
>conscious long enough to open the locket, he may
>have decided not to call for aid in order to preserve
>Snape's cover and keep the vow from going into effect,
>or because his first priority was to see that Snape and
>Harry got the Death Eaters out of the school. Any
>way you slice it, neither of them is a murderer in this
>scenario. Death by misadventure.

Don't know if I'm reading it correctly, but in ch 21 I think Harry doesn't 
cancel orders on following Draco, and Kreacher is very... independent for a 
house elf, he went to Cissy in the last book as soon as he was given a 
chance, so I don't see past him to be in the tower. 

No, the barrier doesn't help. I've already seen a not-every-being barrier in 
the cave, so there's a good chance that a house elf is not considered as 
blockable item, or he could use that misterious house elf magic we don't know 
exactly how it works but seems like apparation inside the castle.

Kreacher having been at Regulus' service also doesn't help to discard him.

Silmariel